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[personal profile] superfangirl1 posting in [community profile] scans_daily











In those final pages, Sonia reveals to Dick that in order to let him into her life. she realizes she needs to open with him and there's something she has been keeping a secret. She hasn't known when to bring it up and she realizes there will never be a good time, but she reveals her father is still alive.

Tony Zucco, still alive and living in Chicago is what apparently motivates Dick to make a change and new direction in his life of moving to a new city.


Date: 2013-03-21 06:36 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: Sad Nightwing (Sad Nightwing)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Excuse me... something in my eye.... I'll just be in the corner for a while until it goes away.

Also... I didn't even think Tony Zucco was dead, so this hardly comes as a shock to me.

Date: 2013-03-21 07:33 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
In the old DCU, I think Snyder, in introducing Sonia, was following Dark Victory's fate for Zucco in that he basically had a heart attack when Dick went after him. At least, I think so. Both stories have the same 'Fats' nickname for Zucco.

Date: 2013-03-21 07:35 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Ah, thanks, could never get into Dark Victory. Last time I remember Tony Zucco as a plot point was waaaaaaay back in Batman:Year Three

Date: 2013-03-21 07:39 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I'm one of the rare few who prefers DV to Long Halloween, so it's one of my favourites - surprising given it's a Loeb story. But.. Yeah. That's the best theory I've got, I guess, given I think there was a tendency to treat those stories as canon before the reboot.

Date: 2013-03-21 07:50 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I'm one of the even rarer ones who just never cared for the Loed/Sale combo at all.

Date: 2013-03-21 08:12 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I can understand that. I personally don't go in for TLH much because I'm not a huge fan of the way Loeb wholesale rips off the Godfather, but I think both books work as an exploration of Harvey and Two Face. It's just a damn shame the ending of TLH doesn't quite make sense.

Date: 2013-03-21 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Well, the solution to the mystery in DV is a LOT less stupid, so that immediately gives it a +1.

Date: 2013-03-21 08:41 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
The 'all the villains!' aspect of the plot also works a Hell of a lot better in DV, to me.

Date: 2013-03-21 06:56 pm (UTC)
chrisdv: (Night-Bats)
From: [personal profile] chrisdv
Holy cow, they actually had the death impact the plot as opposed to just a passing mention!

Incidentally, this is the reason I'm calling BS on Morrison's claims that the other Bat-writers knew before hand.

Date: 2013-03-21 08:35 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
Well, Tomasi at the very least said he knew going into his New 52 run on B&R that Damian was going to die, and I THINK Snyder said the same thing, and since Snyder and Higgins worked so close together, it's possible he might have known as well, but that is conjecture on my part.

Guys like Lobdell, Fawkes, Layman, and Simone, though? Yeah, they probably didn't know until they were writing their issues.

Date: 2013-03-21 08:49 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I still think Simone got booted from the Batgirl book temporarily because she refused to have anything to do with the death of Damian. The timing of it just seems suspicious, to me. I think either she a - refused to have her book derailed by doing yet another tie-in or b - didn't want to have anything to do with the pretty vicious death of a child character.

Date: 2013-03-21 08:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
The thing is, she's said that her first issue back will deal with Damian more directly than what we saw in 18, so I don't think that's it either.

Really, I think what happened was that a new editor got put on Batgirl, the editor decided that he should put some fresh blood on the title, and grossly underestimated how much of the audience of the book is there for Gail as much as Barbara.

Date: 2013-03-21 07:11 pm (UTC)
wake_the_dragon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wake_the_dragon
I liked that they brought the video game back, the voice mail from Damian, and him visiting Damian's grave.

Poor Dick.

Date: 2013-03-21 07:26 pm (UTC)
onceaskrull: (Batman: Blake)
From: [personal profile] onceaskrull
Yikes. Damian is looking super buff.

Date: 2013-03-21 07:55 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
I thought Dick was there, or at least nearby, when Damian died. I'm going to have to re-read BATMAN INC #8.

"Takes" on Tony Zucco usually have him as pretty blasé or apathetic about killing the Graysons. Like it was really Pop Haley's fault for refusing to pay protection money. "Blaming the victim" taken to sociopathic extremes.

Date: 2013-03-21 07:58 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
He was right there, and I don't think there's anything in these scans to suggest otherwise.

Also I hope that at least address HOW someone like Tony Zucco was able to even THINK about pulling a protection racket scam on the circus that was owned by the bloody Court of Owls.

Date: 2013-03-21 08:36 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I think both Dick and Tim were there, but they were still down when Batman got to Damian. The next issue of Inc. will probably have Dick and Tim coming to and finding out what happened.

Date: 2013-03-21 09:53 pm (UTC)
akodo_rokku: (Default)
From: [personal profile] akodo_rokku
Presumably it's as simple as "Zucco never believed the Court existed" and the Court not wanting to tip anyone to their involvement in the circus by bothering with his small-time protection scheme.

They way it fucked up their future recruitment of Dick though, I'm amazed Zucco IS alive.

Date: 2013-03-21 11:13 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Actually, has there ever been addressing of the fact that despite living in a town with a built in bogeyman, and a creepy poem which every Gotham child knows by heart about the Owls and their Talons, Bruce didn't use the name "The Owl" or "Owlman" when he took up his role as vigilante? Seems silly not to make use of such a convenient "legend".

Date: 2013-03-22 07:21 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Maybe we'll get a new scene in Snyder's Year Zero where Bruce is saying "You know Alfred, given this city's history with owls, perhaps I should--" and then Morrison's time-traveller Bruce is hiding outside the windows and just lobs a bat-shaped brick through.

"That's it, Alfred! I shall become a BAT!"

"This is a crudely carved brick, Master Bruce."

"I shall become a BRICK!"

Date: 2013-03-23 03:17 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Reboot and all means this may no longer hold true, but I assume it has to do with bats being one of Bruce's personal fears, stemming from falling into a bat cave (the future Batcave) as a youth, and therefore, even after Bruce overcomes his fears as part of his training with various martial artists or the League of Shadows or whoever, bats were the thing he immediately went to as "What's a terrifying nocturnal creature."

Date: 2013-03-21 10:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
maybe he was a mobster moving in from out of town.

Of course Haley's was a traveling circus and the Court of Owls was only interested in Gotham, so the combination is further stupidity.

Date: 2013-03-21 11:11 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Haley's as a travelling circus always looking out for potential Talon's around the country/world actually makes some sense as a concept. You can't always recruit from your home town or people will notice.

Why any circus family with kids would work with Haley's, since they would have a long history of dead kids, is another matter.

Date: 2013-03-21 09:11 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
I feel like Dick relocates a whole lot, and given the circumstances around this one it really looks like he's just running from his grief. I wonder if that's something that they're actually going for in the story, or if this new direction was unrelated to Damian's death when they came up with it. Hmmmmmmmm......

The Zucco thing doesn't sound particularly interesting to me though, I find superheroes fighting regular mobsters for any extended period of time to be dead boring. Not to mention it seems like a part of Dick Grayson's mythology that doesn't really need to be rehashed. Mobster killed his parents, then he was Robin, now he's Nightwing, done. To me it'd be like making Joe Chill Batman's next big villain, it's unnecessary.

Date: 2013-03-21 09:17 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Nightwing relocating I have no problem with, it's the DCnU undoing and the bloody "Gray Son of Gotham" notion tying his history to Gotham for no appreciable reason I found weird.

Kyle Higgins has an interview up at CBR where it's hinted that the Chicago move isn't permanent.

And agreed that I just can't get interested in Zucco as a major villain, he's AFAIK a minor mobster. Dick caught his parents' killer, justice was done and that's that.

Date: 2013-03-21 11:52 pm (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Robin/Damian Wayne)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d


P.S. - I take it seeing an "older" Damian in his Robin costume is pretty much Dick's wish for Damian to have lived and the two to hang out. I knew Nightwing will have the biggest reaction and it didn't disappoint.

Date: 2013-03-22 12:07 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Since the shots of Damian there are flashbacks, not dreams, I think we have to put it down to the artist not drawing him as a ten year old.

Date: 2013-03-22 04:04 am (UTC)
blunderbuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blunderbuss
Oooh, what cartoon is this gif from? :o

Date: 2013-03-22 04:25 am (UTC)
big_daddy_d: (Default)
From: [personal profile] big_daddy_d
From season 1 of Young Justice.

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