Date: 2015-05-03 03:13 pm (UTC)
althechi: (dave lincoln doesn't take crap)
From: [personal profile] althechi
And once again, a "What if" ends in total destruction...

Date: 2015-05-03 04:37 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
The marvel multiverse is a really huge crapsack of a place if 99% of the universes are either "the world hates you" or "the world is destroyed because of you"

Date: 2015-05-03 04:41 pm (UTC)
althechi: (WHAT)
From: [personal profile] althechi
Maybe the reason why civilians in the main Marvel Universe are such douchebags to superheroes is because they absorb the memories of their terminated doppelgangers whenever said superheroes screw the pooch!

Date: 2015-05-04 11:29 am (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
IIRC this one actually ends on a hopeful note. Wolverine who finally calmed down from his psychotic kill all villains spree (brought on by hunting Cable for killing Xavier, Jean and Scott) breaks in and frees several surviving mutants and recreates the X-men.

Since he's got Shaw's blocker that allows mutants to move around freely without sentinels detecting them. Since in this universe Shaw Industries built those sentinels.

Date: 2015-05-03 03:33 pm (UTC)
mistersandman: How would you feel if you had to put on a really stupid hat? (RAGE)
From: [personal profile] mistersandman
I don't really think of myself as a Doctor Doom fanboy, but it still irks me to see that he was taken down by the Sentinels as well.

Date: 2015-05-03 03:47 pm (UTC)
althechi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] althechi
Well, he was doomed to job given this seems to be an X-Men 30th anniversary "What If".

Date: 2015-05-03 08:34 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Ditto Ghost Rider... a completely supernatural being... What, the Sentinels learned to spellcast?

Date: 2015-05-03 09:59 pm (UTC)
steverodgers5: (Default)
From: [personal profile] steverodgers5
This. It's always annoyed me these alternate future/dimensions where it's said a bunch of flipping robots have somehow taken down every other superpowered threat.
Not just Doom, but I feel like Thor would wade through them like they were made of tinfoil. And if they somehow inexplicably managed to terminate him, how would Asgard react to that? Odin would probably wipe them all out in a day!

Date: 2015-05-04 01:30 am (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
Forget Odin--how would evil old Loki have handled someone else killing Thor?

Date: 2015-05-04 11:44 am (UTC)
steverodgers5: (Default)
From: [personal profile] steverodgers5

Date: 2015-05-03 11:35 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
Not to mention that the sentinels never have been much of a threat in practice. Their sudden show of incredible success without any established reason comes of as quite jarring.

They should have been Nimrod units.

Date: 2015-05-03 03:57 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I still find the idea of anti-mutant racism hard to swallow.

In something like the Fox films where they're by themselves I can get it but in a world with superheroes, aliens, monsters and gods all parading around I wonder why people born with abilities or deformities would be the the thing that sets people off.

Date: 2015-05-03 04:42 pm (UTC)
althechi: (ACD doesn't approve)
From: [personal profile] althechi
It's something to do with the innateness of these differences or some hogwash like that, even though the public has no way of knowing besides the sole example of the Fantastic Four, where the circumstances of their empowerment are essentially public fact.

Date: 2015-05-04 01:50 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Though in this case, it looks like Sentinels are taking out all supers- Spidey, Ghost Rider, Hulk, Thor, and even Vision are on their list!

Date: 2015-05-04 04:36 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] sanctaphrax
I vaguely recall there being some kind of evil mind-controlling mold-man behind the anti-mutant sentiment in the Marvel Universe. I don't remember the details, though, or whether it was retconned.

Date: 2015-05-04 05:01 am (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
It was Sublime, from the Morrison era All-New X-Men. Sublime was a sentient bacteria that wanted to wiped out mutants because they were the only beings immune to its influence, and it fostered anti-mutant sentiment to achieve that end.

Date: 2015-05-03 04:42 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
I think i once read someone said "it's the difference between getting AIDS because of Sex and getting AIDS through blood transfusion. In the latter, people will be sympathetic to you. in the former, they will give you the blame for it"
i think it does not apply as much today as during the time were AIDS was "the gay cancer", but i think there is a similar idea here. the FF, for example, were normal humans who suffered a horrible accident. the mutants are not and, from the Marvel Civilians POV, the ones to blame for their situation AND any other mutants that is born.

Date: 2015-05-03 05:09 pm (UTC)
althechi: (ACD doesn't approve)
From: [personal profile] althechi
But how does the public know that Spider-Man got his powers by radioactive spider-bite, given that he doesn't advertise this fact wherever he goes, just to name one example?

Date: 2015-05-03 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
Well, Spider-Man WAS at one point a public enemy.

Date: 2015-05-03 08:37 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Was he really, or was he because JJJ said he was as loudly as possible?

Date: 2015-05-04 12:48 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
He had a lot of problems with the police in the 70s because he was a suspect in the deaths of both Stacys.

Date: 2015-05-03 05:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
Maybe the FF did it? like, it is well known fact he at least has a friendly relationship with them. maybe they did it? or JJJ discovered it and twisted it to show Spidey as a villain?

Date: 2015-05-03 07:23 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
For a while I've been thinking that a way to explain it could be the evolutionary angle, combined with how close to home it hits. Like, when you've got Thor and the Fantastic Four off fighting space gods in New York it could be easy to ignore it and pretend that it doesn't effect "real life" but mutants are scary because your neighbor's kid could turn out to be one. It's like the difference between seeing soldiers on the news firing machine guns and knowing that your creepy neighbor owns one. Plus you've got a few maniacs running around talking about how mutants are the next step in evolution.

Combine the fact that anyone could turn out to be a walking nuke with the framing of mutants as an existential threat to humanity, and I could see how mutants might bear the brunt of hate and (justified, when you look past the often ill-fitting racism/homophobia metaphors) paranoia.

Spider-Man's publicity problems could be explained in a similar way, especially in a modern context, where you're more likely to see Iron Man fight a time traveler than stop a bank robbery. Spider-Man is creepy because he's fighting regular criminals, so he makes it hard to ignore the fact that superhumans aren't so distant. Thus Spidey becomes kind of a scapegoat for people's collective repressed fears about having a bunch of unaccountable walking nukes taking the law into their own hands.

Date: 2015-05-03 11:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
Fan theory:
It's the same Celestials manipulation that created mutants in the first place. Some kind of species-level safety. Mutants have one (or very rarely two) active X-genes. Its always been assumed that if you don't, the genes that replaces it is inert, junk DNA.

However, I suspect that if you carry two copies (homozygote) of the replacement gene, it inclines you to an unreasoning hostile/fear reaction towards X-gene carriers.

This is probably what that helmet of Magnetos that ereased prejudice worked on. Seems out of his area to make a device that just ereased all prejudice. It may not even be a recessive trait. X-gene carriers do seem to get into an awful lot of fights. Like Xavier once observed, most mutant deaths are due to other mutants.

Observe that Franklin Richards is a double X-gene carrier, and is neither activly disliked by the public nor inclined to get into fights with other mutants, brief as they would be.

Date: 2015-05-04 01:49 am (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
I could see the Celesitals introducing traits that induce various genetic variants to be more aggressive toward one another as a means to spur natural selection.

Date: 2015-05-04 01:54 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
This might be one of the reasons Mutants are apparently being sent to their own universe apart from the rest of Marvel, like a Vertigo spin-off. The main reason of course is that Fox owns the film rights.


And yeah, the anti-mutant racism doesn't seem rational, given the relative tolerance people have towards other superhumans. But then again, racism isn't really rational in the first place.
Edited Date: 2015-05-04 01:56 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-05-03 04:36 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
wait...if they had those sentinels ready...why did they wait until Magneto was in the white house to activate them? also, where was Xavier during all of this? or was this during one of his deaths?
Edited Date: 2015-05-03 04:37 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-05-03 04:58 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Cable killed him, Jean and Scott in part one of this what if two part story.

Basically the divergence in this world is Xavier came back to Earth early and went on a quest to fix what he saw as wrong with the situation. He beat the shadow king on Muir Island earlier for example. He tried to take the new mutants away from Cable seeing him as a bad influence and Cable retaliated by blowing him,Scott and Jean up while they had dinner in a restaurant.

Date: 2015-05-03 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
yeah. i could feel like i was missing parts of the story.

Date: 2015-05-03 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
"He tried to take the new mutants away from Cable seeing him as a bad influence and Cable retaliated by blowing him,Scott and Jean up while they had dinner in a restaurant."

Yup. Clearly Xavier was wrong there. What a role model! :)

Date: 2015-05-04 05:42 am (UTC)
ozaline: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
why did they wait until Magneto was in the white house to activate them?

Cause the President has a flare for drama.

Date: 2015-05-03 04:48 pm (UTC)
squirle: (Default)
From: [personal profile] squirle
How do you mentally scan a robot?

Date: 2015-05-03 06:06 pm (UTC)
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)
From: [personal profile] dr_archeville
With the focused totality of her telepathic powers!

Date: 2015-05-03 08:33 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
So she could do it from anything up to 6" from the backs of her hand?

A long range telepath limiting their power THAT much always bugged the hell out of me.

Date: 2015-05-04 01:52 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
The Sentinels seem... oddly effective, considering Magneto is their foe. How did Mags not wipe out their production facility?

I also wonder how Magneto is supposed to make peace at this point. We don't exactly see demands from the other side, just killer robots.

Date: 2015-05-04 02:00 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
In at least one continuity the Sentinels were built to be able to resist Magneto's powers. Sentinels are specifically designed to counter Mutants and are in-theory really good at killing them. This What-If demonstrates how effective they could be if plot armor wasn't in the way. That said, they really shouldn't be that effective against non-mutant foes, especially a supernatural/divine one like Ghost Rider.

Date: 2015-05-04 06:51 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
This seems to have it both ways. First Magneto is able to easily take over. Then the Sentinels kick all kinds of butt. But Magneto himself has a trivial time with them until the nuke one.

If there's an opposition that has the resources for not just covert sentinel strikes, but regular wave after wave of them, enough to overwhelm the Avengers, New Warriors, and Fantastic Four, is the US taken over in any meaningful sense?

It reads more like a 'Pro-Sentinel faction takes over the US, Magneto holds out in the capital.'


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