[identity profile] sherkahn.insanejournal.com posting in [community profile] scans_daily
New previews from Wonder Woman: Rise of the Olympian - part 8

I will skip my usual complaints and just Wonder about this image.

From IGN.

I spent a summer in Acapulco when I was a kid. Playing in the sun from sunrise, swimming til sunset at the beach and at the hotel pool, and watching Godzilla and other monster movies til we passed out. Needless to say, I dreamt of huge monsters coming out of the shores and I could see them from my hotel room as they made landfall, huge monster armies deep into the dark night horizon.

This brought those fun summer memories all back.

*edit* sorry it took me so long to fix the LJ cut

Date: 2009-06-22 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khaosworks.insanejournal.com
As much as I loath the way Byrne plays fast and loose with continuity, I have to say that the best thing about his Wonder Woman run was making Hippolyta the Golden Age Wonder Woman.

Yes, I know it makes no freaking sense even continuity wise. Yes, it was Hippolyta and not Diana. But I can't help if, after Crisis on Infinite Earths erased her from WWII history, my fanboy blood rushes when I see Wonder Woman back with the Justice Society beating the crap out of Axis soldiers where she belongs. And even the slightly retconned history that came out of that I didn't mind.

Polly had a great death scene, one of the few well-written scenes among the train wreckage that was Our Worlds At War. The wake held by Alan Scott, Ted Grant and Jay Garrick over a poker game still makes me "d'aww." And I still have mixed feelings about them bringing her back.

Date: 2009-06-22 09:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scottyquick.insanejournal.com
I heartily, heartily disagree. Making Hippolyta the Golden Age Wonder Woman was a horrible idea because it makes Diana, Wonder Woman, a legacy hero. It means Diana's not trailblazing her own path, she's following one previously established.

Date: 2009-06-22 09:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khaosworks.insanejournal.com
And I perfectly understand your reasons for doing so. But equally, I don't care. All things being equal, I much prefer a Golden Age Wonder Woman.

Date: 2009-06-22 09:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
In that case, why not send Diana back?

I mean, I know, God forbid, it gives Diana seniority over the other members of the Trinity, but it does less damage to the character. (The other solution, depending on whether you prefer "Golden Age Wondy" as a concept or "Hippolyta is a badass", would be to send Polly back but not as Wonder Woman - call her "Amazon" or something, and say she ended up so busy fighting Nazis she never got a chance to tell anyone who she was or where she was from. It still guts the mythos a little, but it's a better solution than having her be Wonder Woman.)

Date: 2009-06-22 09:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khaosworks.insanejournal.com
This is where it starts to go off the rails for me, because I don't see being a legacy hero as inherently "damaging" to a character. It's not whether or not you're the first to take up the mantle - it's whether you do it well. Case in point, Jaime Reyes.

Date: 2009-06-22 10:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Jaime got to choose to be a Blue Beetle. He researched Ted Kord, spent a lot of time trying to figure out what the name meant and how and even whether he wanted to live up to it, and understood from the very beginning that there were expectations around his job and name and, to some extent, what they were. There's a huge difference between *starting* a character as a legacy character and undercutting an original character by back-propagating a false legacy.

Not to mention that it obliterates about half of Perez' run, destroys the entire message of Diana Rockwell Trevor (and thereby seriously dents one of the most valuable parts of the relaunched mythos), and puts Polly's JSA allies in a position of unearned seniority over Diana ("shut up, kid, I played cards with your mother before you were even a twinkle in Athena's eye").

Date: 2009-06-22 10:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khaosworks.insanejournal.com
Seriously, that's all fair enough, and I've heard the arguments again and again. I know my position may not even be defensible - it's just that, in the final analysis, it honestly doesn't matter a whit to me. I still like the idea of Polly as the Golden Age Wonder Woman. Hence, I still cheerfully don't care.

Date: 2009-06-22 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Well, I'll never be convinced not to love the Detroit League, so I suppose we've all got our fannish quirks.

Date: 2009-06-23 08:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drsevarius.insanejournal.com
puts Polly's JSA allies in a position of unearned seniority over Diana

Wouldn't they already be in a position of seniority, being older than her?

Date: 2009-06-23 01:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
It's a bit different when it's personal. Consider the significant divide in authority between "we didn't do it like that in my day" and "your mother would never do that." Or, in employment terms, the hero/legacy hero relationship is a boss/employee one, basically; Kid Flash sidekicks for the real Flash so he can become the real Flash, Natasha Irons works in her father's shop until she earns the armor, etc, which means the difference is between the JSA being older coworkers of Diana's (seniority of experience) and the JSA being coworkers of Diana's boss (seniority of hierarchy).

Now, Diana is a princess, so she's used to being in authority over her mother's friends - not much is going to impress someone who outranks Phillipus - which means it's not quite as big a deal for her on an in-universe level. But in a meta sense it still drags her down a peg (in a way which, significantly, Bruce and Clark are not).

Date: 2009-06-23 10:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlbarnett.insanejournal.com
well Superman at least seems to put a great deal of respect into the JSA. I really don't get the feel that making Hippolyta know the JSA puts them above Diana in the meta feel. Frankly meta-wise Diana is the top dog despite numerous female characters being stronger or otherwise more powerful that her.

Date: 2009-06-24 09:24 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
despite numerous female characters being stronger or otherwise more powerful that her

Not particularly, actually, no. Zee might be, depending on the weather, and you could probably make an argument for Babs (though I think you'd lose, especially recently), but that's about it. Lantern/kryptonian/Marvel/martian/demigod class is the highest standard weight class in DC; everybody higher up, like the Spectre or the Guardians or the Phantom Stranger, is an old white guy who mostly stays out of normal mortal affairs except through mortal agents.

Particularly now that Madame Xandau's had a power downgrade. -_-

Date: 2009-06-23 10:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jlbarnett.insanejournal.com
I've been considering posting this timeline idea I had on No Scans, I may still do it.

Around 1944 there's an incident on Paradise Island where Doom's Doorway is almost opened. Diana Trevor ends up crashing on the island and stopping one of the first monsters out. She's wounded and delirious when attended. She looks at Hippoylta and says "Polly... tell Steve and Stevie I love them," jsut before dying.

Hippolyta looks at her belonging and sees baby pictures, which really stirs something she's been feeling for a couple of centuries. Within a year Diana is sculpted and brought to life.

About ten years later an infant washes ashore. Something that hasn't really happened for years. There's something with her that says her name is Donna Troy

Time passes. Diana and Donna become Wonder WOman and WOndergirl. Diana dies and Hippolyta takes her place

She eventually time travels back to the 1940's. She takes about five steps and Athena appears wondering what the hell is going on. After some talking Polly is allowed to stay in the past. But she can't mention Themiscrya or anything. Hitler's to into the supernatural, and Doom's DOorway is very active at that point. The Amazons and their island need to stay secret for now. In fact Athena has a way to insure that people's memories of Hippolyta will be replaced after she leaves.

She meets Steve Trevor Sr and Diana Trevor. In fact she sees Diana off on the plane ride that will lead to her death and passes the message onto Diana's husband and son.

About ten years later she sees something strange. A lightning bolt out of the clear blue sky sets a building on fire. She wonders what the hell Zeus could be doing and checks it out and finds a baby. SHe picks it up and Rhea appears, followed by the Amazons patrons. They argue. Hippolyta decides to let them, but she's getting the kid out of there. What she doesn't know is that that baby is not a baby. The Titans took orphaned children and raised them on New Cronus, then deaged them and returned them, because people appearing out of no where and rising to important positions. She realizes it's Donna and sends her to Themiscrya.

It'd end with a time travel to shift most of the JSA and family and many friens ahead afew decades just after HUAC. Hippolyta decides to head home with her connections in that time gone. When she comes back she finds out Steve and his new wife Diana Prince had a daughter they named Hippolyta. Of course she'd eventually end up taking the name Fury using the name of the fictional heroine who had replaced Hippolyta in everyone's memories.

Date: 2009-06-24 09:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bluefall.insanejournal.com
Huh. Complicated, but internally consistent and appears to cover all the bases, and cleaves closer to appropriate characterization than what we've got now. Personally, I'd still rather just excise the whole concept, but there's a certain appeal in tying up the Fury and Donna knots that neatly.


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