Date: 2015-09-03 05:46 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
I don't consider this bad...just...unnecessary.

It rewrites some of the continuity of Watchmen from behind the scenes to serve its plot, but is mostly....just there. Its adding detail that really doesn't add all that much to the equation. It only works contextually AFTER you've read Watchmen, but at that point it feels like a lot of backmatter that doesn't actually need to be done.

It doesn't openly conflict the source material, but it begs the question: what does this actually add that justifies its existence? And I'm coming up empty-handed, honestly.

Date: 2015-09-03 06:08 pm (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
MERCHANDISING, MERCHANDISING!

Date: 2015-09-03 07:20 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Beyond sales of these issues, WAS there any merchanidising?

Date: 2015-09-03 08:09 pm (UTC)
tugrul: That Chest (Default)
From: [personal profile] tugrul
Yes, statues and a few t-shirts under license.

Date: 2015-09-03 06:34 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
And what's more, it attempts to justify its redundancy by overlaying a superficial "religious redemption" theme. Superficial, because it tries to sell us on the idea of Moloch as a Christ figure, so loving the world that he willingly sacrifices himself to save it.

But his "sacrifice" is in fact meaningless, and not simply because the ending of the original Watchmen implies Veidt's new world order won't last. It's meaningless because, despite Veidt speaking as though it's intentional on Moloch's part--it isn't. Even if Veidt hadn't broken into his apartment and spilled the beans, Moloch would've died anyway from the cancer, and wouldn't have known why. Yes, the Comedian had given him hints, but we know both from the original comic and from this miniseries that Moloch had pretty much no idea what his old foe was on about.

Nor do I buy Veidt sincerely offering Jacobi the choice, after he's spelled out the whole plan, of ratting him out. Are we supposed to believe that Ozymandias, a man so single-mindedly, obsessively, egotistically devoted to his scheme for twenty years, a man enough on top of things not only to foresee likely monkey wrenches (Jon) but to adapt for newly-discovered ones (Rorschach, the Comedian)... would deliberately create a loose end and leave its resolution to another's choice?

Bullshit. This is the character whose signature line is, "Do you seriously think I'd explain my master-stroke if there remained the slightest chance of you affecting its outcome? I did it thirty-five minutes ago."

This miniseries is so full of fail that when you look up "failure" in the dictionary, it should be an example.

Date: 2015-09-03 06:51 pm (UTC)
coldfury: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coldfury
I think he was giving Moloch the choice to die willingly or unwillingly, I don't think he really had any other choice.

Date: 2015-09-03 07:24 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Agreed, there was no choice in the matter, just Ozy trying to be nice... in his own somewhat homicidal fashion, like poisoning his underlings later, but making it an instant, painless poison.

Plus it let him get his monologuing out of the way before he met up with the others later on.

Date: 2015-09-03 07:51 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
Ah, that makes more sense to me. I still think the Christian symbolism's misplaced in his case. Or mishandled, anyway.

Date: 2015-09-03 10:32 pm (UTC)
miramira: book stack (Default)
From: [personal profile] miramira
Especially when the magic trick line is decent on its own.

Date: 2015-09-04 04:16 am (UTC)
dcbanacek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dcbanacek
Veidt also showed up wearing his signature suit, not even attempting to hide his blonde hair and standing by an uncovered window? Now that's just reckless.

Say what you will about the movie but at least in that, Veidt took steps to conceal his identity.

Date: 2015-09-03 06:36 pm (UTC)
trooper924: (Default)
From: [personal profile] trooper924
Pretty much that. A lot of the stuff Before Watchmen does is superfluous since it doesn't change anything about Watchmen or how we perceive things in Watchmen. And the stuff that does change things either misses the point of the original Watchmen series (i.e. turns it into a traditional superhero universe) or is simply terrible (i.e. everything that has to do with Hooded Justice).
Edited Date: 2015-09-03 06:36 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-03 08:35 pm (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
I'm kind of surprised by how this is genuinely pissing me off.

Moloch was just this old dude with cancer, you know? Who got mixed up in a conspiracy for the sole reason that he went to a funeral out of a sense of obligation and a bugfuck vigilante thought that was suspicious. I kind of like him as a character because of that. His portrayal was down to earth.

So now he has to be this creepy, stooped-over goblin person with an unnecessarily gothic backstory. And his "involvement" in the conspiracy has to be this more complicated redemption-coercion thing where Ozymandias comes openly and explains his entire plan to him because that makes sense.

Like, have do you what Occam's Razor is, JMS? What the fuck is this comic?
Edited Date: 2015-09-03 08:35 pm (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-04 05:36 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
The fact that they felt the need to try and link EVERYTHING up like this by having Moloch be the one inform Veidt about the Comedian, for instance, is just ridiculous, and the kind-of pointless gap-filling that we really didn't need, especially given I thought Veidt was meant to be aware that the Comedian had infiltrated the facility where he was making the Space Death Squid. As much as I could appreciate parts of the Minutemen and Silk Spectre series, since they added a little more to characters who got basically jack in the original, this is just.. Eh.

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