Date: 2015-09-17 10:53 pm (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
Wait so she just killed that Baggage Claim Lady? And now she's got that tied up girl held hostage in a motel room?


Date: 2015-09-17 11:14 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
Yeah, I don't quite get why people were so shocked over Harley hacking up that guy in the recent Suicide Squad post. While she's funny and chipper, sometimes sweet, and sometimes wants to do good...violent, unpredictable psychotic behaviour has always been part of her characterization.

Date: 2015-09-18 01:24 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
This. Even in Mad Love, the story that put her on the map, her ultimate plan was to kill Batman. Not a pie to the face, not Jokerization. Just straight-up kill the guy.

Although to argue both sides, that baggage lady kill did seem too red for Amandaverse Harley Quinn.

Date: 2015-09-17 11:35 pm (UTC)
cainofdreaming: cain's mark (pic#364829)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
Yeah, let's make a dig at those who prefer her old look to the revamp. It's so classy.

Date: 2015-09-17 11:49 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
I wonder what sorts of "special occasions" Nu52 Harley saves her old costume for. Temporary, ill-advised reunions with the Joker?

Date: 2015-09-18 03:11 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Harley literally pistol whips a fan who prefers the old costume?

Date: 2015-09-18 03:59 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Oh yeah...I don't mind, really. Tasteless, but it carries about the same weight as my friend smack-talking me through a Tekken sweep. I don't think this was meant as a serious treatise against fans of the old costume.

Date: 2015-09-18 08:55 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Nobody ever said it was meant as an actual threat.

Date: 2015-09-18 09:12 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Threat against?

Date: 2015-09-19 03:30 am (UTC)
dustbunny105: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dustbunny105
I dunno, it seems to be equating preferring the old costume with preferring Harley to be nothing more than Joker's girlfriend (and a shallow excuse for that besides). Even if it is supposed to be playful, that tips it over into obnoxious to me.

Date: 2015-09-19 08:26 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Except that she's done plenty of independent non-Joker involved stuff wearing the classic costume. 38 issues and 4 years worth of stuff, says the original Harley Quinn series. And that's not counting Gotham City Sirens.

It's an accusation that assumes a correlation between appearance and independence (incorrect given the existence of the above past series), and an interpretation that don't hold water (given the existence of the present series). If the creative team believed an awful costume deserved an awful characterization, they wouldn't have given her the well-rounded life she has now while still wearing her roller-derby costume.

Date: 2015-09-19 05:20 pm (UTC)
dustbunny105: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dustbunny105
Except that she's done plenty of independent non-Joker involved stuff wearing the classic costume.

... Yes? Which is why I find the scene with the cosplayer seemingly equating preference for the old costume with preference for a shallow, Joker-dependent portrayal obnoxious.

Date: 2015-09-20 01:07 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
The operative term is 'seemingly': there's no proof of equation here that's not interpretation-based.

As for the cosplayer introducing herself as such, that's because what she said was the gun-to-your-head-I'll-count-to-five, casual-conversation description of Harley Quinn that most people are familiar with. It's not meant to disparage her character, or state that it's all she's good for: it's just that not everyone can capably package her entire history/characterization into a single sentence. That follows later, when you determine that the person you're talking to is interested in the subject and you can expand what you know about it to inform/entertain.

Date: 2015-09-20 02:15 pm (UTC)
dustbunny105: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dustbunny105
Well, yes, that's why I used the word; because that's my interpretation. That's why I find it obnoxious. Even if it's not intended, it lends itself enough to that interpretation to get on my nerves.

I know the character within the confines of the universe is limited in her view, but it was the writer who chose to present her and her limited view, and to have Harley pistol-whip her for said limited view. The choice was also made to do so while drawing attention to the costume she's wearing. I wouldn't expect them to pack Harley's entire character into a few word balloons and I certainly wouldn't expect them to do so through a cosplayer, but they also didn't have to set it up like this.

Date: 2015-09-21 02:39 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Hell, I've no truck with interpretation. But by entering that into the argument, one could also say that New 52 Harley violently attacking Classic Harley (whom you maintain was set up to equate to 'Joker's Girlfriend') could be seen as a symbol of her rejecting her Joker-attachment status. Same set-up, different interpretation.

I can see your point with the execution issues. But the original question, way back, is whether this was a planned dig by the writers against fans of the old costume. Interpretation isn't evidence, and by admitting that as basis, we're opening this to an uncontrollable range of discussion. There's plenty of different rabbits to draw out of the interpretation hat, and when kingdom come rolls around we'll still be here plunging our hands wrist-deep into the brim.

Date: 2015-09-21 02:32 pm (UTC)
dustbunny105: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dustbunny105
Very true, and that thought did also cross my mind. At the very least, I do think in-universe Harley is lashing out against the idea that she's just the Joker's zany girlfriend.

Fair enough, too, that the original question was of intent and the myriad of possible interpretations of the scene don't answer that. But short of actually asking the creative team for clarification, I don't see what else we have to go on as far as discussing intent, which is why I dropped my two cents in. That and I just still think the way they set it up was the wrong way to do so if they were going for a rejection of Joker-attachment.

Date: 2015-09-21 05:18 pm (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
And I think it a nonchalant line, but you're right: without official confirmation we're not getting any closure from this except the ones we make ourselves. I s'pose it's high time we agree to disagree and shake on it, if it's all right with you?

Date: 2015-09-21 07:29 pm (UTC)
dustbunny105: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dustbunny105
It does look to be that time, I agree. Nice talking to you :)

Date: 2015-09-23 01:47 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
"Bows head* You too. :)

Date: 2015-09-18 01:54 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
Oh, no, we're the "old" fans now! :(

Date: 2015-09-18 04:57 am (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
Harley's murderous tendencies might have been played for laughs if used against genuinely awful people, but this is so mean spirited. I mean, they even go out of their way to point out that the airline employee is frustrated because of her awful customer service job. This isn't blackly comic, it's just vile.

Date: 2015-09-18 08:58 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Agreed. They often play it for laughs when Harley kills people, but it's usually "acceptable targets" (like, a guy who is torturing a puppy). Here it's just downright mean-spirited.

And I'm pretty sure the girl will be even more into drugs when she has to deal with PTSD on top of any issues she already has. The "scare them straight" method often backfires.

Date: 2015-09-18 10:03 am (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
Cripes, she really has turned into Deadpool, hasn't she?

Seriously, if you changed it so Deadpool was exactly where she was, saying the same lines, would anyone notice?

Date: 2015-09-18 11:27 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
I would find it weird and OOC.

Wade was completely psychopathic in the old books, when he did horrific, horrific things to Blind Al (the "you don't need bars for a cage" scene was especially disturbing, Wade was a monster back then even if he had the freudian excuse of being genuinely insane).

But he has gone through a lot of character development since then, especially after Cable & Deadpool. For years he has been quite good at not harming innocent civilians, even the annoying ones. These days I honestly can't see him chopping up an airline employee like that just because she wasn't apologetic enough after her company lost his luggage, especially after she mentioned that she had been working for twelve hours straight.

Hell, he probably would play a much nicer and understanding version of "scare 'em straight" with the girl too, rather than kidnapping her and stripping her naked and leaving her tied up naked for hours with threats of violent murder. Even in the old days, at his worst, I can't remember Wade using sexualized violence against women.
Edited Date: 2015-09-18 11:27 am (UTC)

Date: 2015-09-19 04:17 am (UTC)
rdfox: Joker asking Tim Drake, "'Sup?" from Paul Dini's "Slay Ride" (Default)
From: [personal profile] rdfox
In fairness to the comic, Harley didn't "strip her naked." The girl had sent a fake ransom note to her mother, who had hired Harley to rescue her. Harley found her at a pool party in that skimpy bikini, where she was expecting to take the ransom money and blow it on cocaine and male prostitutes and general partying. Harley just didn't bother *dressing* her when she tied her up.

Date: 2015-09-19 06:14 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Thank you for letting me know, that's a relief.

Date: 2015-09-18 06:12 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
This comic is doing airline jokes and being inexplicably mean spirited about overworked customer service workers. It's 2015 and that's the shit they're pulling out.

I've accepted that while this comic isn't for me that doesn't mean it's bad, but still. It's 2015 guys, airline jokes are passe and I thought most people had realized that workers deserve to be cut a little slack.

Date: 2015-09-20 05:07 am (UTC)
silverzeo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverzeo
They could have made the cosplayer be BAD at being Harley, maybe even make her in the "Fake Harley" from Joker's Millions... maybe she was one of the dozens of Harls from the Death of the Family issue... back when everyone in the New52 seemed to have a double or wasn't the real character they were suppose to be, like with Superboy, Lobo, or Bart Allen...


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