NS: Why Dr. Strange's Ancient One is a woman

[lucean]

I just wanted to share this writer explanation as I honestly found it kind of hilarious. So, as some of you may be aware, there has been some dislike about the fact that Tilda Swinton was cast as the Ancient One in Dr. Strange, as the character in the comics was a Tibetan man. The interview can be found here: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/world/asia/china-doctor-strange-tibet.html?_r=0

It is a really interesting summary of the interview. Something that baffled me in it was that the writers argument about the Ancient One being an oriental stereotype is true, but what I continue to struggle with is that if they decided to change the ethnicity of the Ancient One because of that, why did decide everything is Tibetan. So in an attempt to avoid racial sensitivity, they decide to have a white person have teach another white person to be the bestest magic while dressed in Tibetan clothes in a Tibetan building surrounded by Tibetan people in Tibet.

The comment that killed me, though, was how insulting the writer considered casting a Chinese woman to act a Tibetan character.

Comments

(frozen comment)

[long_silence]

I pretty much lost all hope for this movie when they cast the most milquetoast mayonnaise whitebread actor they could find for Stephen Strange.

The Marvel movies are practically printing money, they could have cast an actor of literally any ethnicity and it wouldn't change the character at all, and they'd still make bank. And they still went with the safest option possible.

And then they chose Tilda Swinton for the Ancient One and I knew I'd made the right decision not to watch this movie.

Say what you will about the DC movies but at least they're taking a chance with Gal Gadot, Jason Momoa and Ezra Miller

(frozen comment)

[commodus]

Okay, disagree with the casting if you want. But why is the actor suddenly fair game to be insulted on their skin color?

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[bizarrohulk]

Be interesting to see if long_silence's comment gets a Mod Note ...

(frozen comment)

[bj_l]

Of course it won't.

(frozen comment)

[long_silence]

I don't think I was insulting his appearance. I was pointing out that Hollywood prefers casting actors with whiter and lighter skin tones, and that gives Benedict Cumberbatch, who's paler than a ghost, an unfair advantage over actors of color who will never even be seriously considered for the roles he's just handed because of his lack of melanin.

But hey if using hyperbole to describe his yogurt like complexion is going to get me a Mod Note then fine by me.

(frozen comment)

[commodus]

You WERE insulting his appearance, and you've done it again.
You are clouding this legitimate issue of whitewashing with these bizarre insults, designed to body-shame not just him, but an entire race of people, for genetic features which they cannot change.
Can you please stop doing it?

(frozen comment)

[long_silence]

In what way was I insulting his appearance? I was comparing his skin tone to arbitrary objects, in no way did I say it was a bad thing that he himself is pale skinned nor did I say it made him unattractive.

And these "genetic features that he cannot change" offer him privilege and opportunities greater than those available to most other races of people. I am not trying to bodyshame him or other white people. I'm just saying that the pale skinned ideal of beauty is bullshit and extremely harmful to society as a whole, and Benedict Cumberbatch benefits from it greatly.

(frozen comment)

[commodus]

I'm not in the best state of mind at the moment. So I won't address your first comment.

But as for your comment about white privilege? You're absolutely right. He DOES benefit from it, as do all of us white people. And I will admit that, despite how highly I rate his work, he is over-saturated in the media at the moment.
In general, I think the whitewashing issue could have been averted if they skipped the origin. The cosmic/mystical side of Marvel is weak, in general. Far better to just throw us in, explain elements of Strange's story throughout, and avoid offending thousands and thousands of cinemagoers.

(frozen comment)

[shadowpsykie]

as a person of color myself. i must say that i myself found your comments to be very offensive. if you want to criticize his acting as bland, fine. Call his acting milquetoast. no need to make so many comments in regards solely to his skin tone. I would take personal offense if someone said said someone was "Cafe con leche" "wheat bread" "bean toned" etc. arbitraty objects have been used to criticise and denigrate people based on their skin tone quite often enough. Hell you can criticise his being one amongst a sea of plain white, bland actors, without it being directly an attack on his skin tone.

(frozen comment)

[long_silence]

I wasn't denigrating his appearance. I used paler than a ghost which is a common turn of phrase. I compared his skin tone to mayonnaise or yogurt, which isn't very different from saying coffee colored skin or the like. Any criticism I had was in regards to the casting process and I did not make any comments on his degree of attractiveness

I didn't call him or his acting bland, I did not attribute his whiteness to being a reason he was bland, that was you. So I'm not sure how what I said was an attack on Cumberbatch but what you said wasn't.

But since what I said was offensive to several posters, then I apologize and I will try to refrain from making such comments in the future.

(frozen comment)

[jlbarnett]

wouldn't changing the ethnicity without changing anything about the character upset some people, by essentially saying their ethnicity doesn't matter?

When I saw people on tumblr talking about an Asian American Dr Strange or Iron Fist I saw people pitching ideas about how they could do a story about a guy reconnecting to his heritage, despite the fact that would significantly change their stories and they'd be connecting to entirely fictional stuff. It's be like an American of Britich decent reconnecting to his heritage by going to Hogwarts

(frozen comment)

[long_silence]

The thing about Stephen Strange is that his ethnicity doesn't matter to his back story. Successful and arrogant surgeon injures his hands and turns to magic to heal them and ends up becoming more accomplished as a sorcerer then he ever was as a doctor.

The back story is universal, you could use an actor of any ethnicity and it wouldn't change the core parts of his origin. It would give his background some context, people of color can often feel more pressure to be successful, to be doctors, "you have to work twice as hard to get half of what they have". That kind of pressure could help explain why Strange feels desperate enough to turn to magic to fix his hands.

And the thing about Iron Fist is that one of the arguments I've seen defending the need to keep his character white is that it's important to his dynamic with Luke Cage, and that the fact that he comes from a place of privilege but grew up as an outsider in K'un-Lun colors his perception of the world. And that's fair enough but that's assuming the show will bother addressing those aspects at all.

(frozen comment)

[arilou_skiff]

I think Strange could work as any ethnicity... So long as that ethnicity is different from the culture the Ancient One represents.

Basically, he can't be framed as reconnecting wtih his heritage, he is stepping into the (to him) unknown.

(frozen comment)

[kojiro]

(frozen comment)

[oddityangel]

People are actually offended by the terms 'mayo' and 'whitebread'? Oh dear...

(frozen comment) Mod Note!

[icon_uk]

Whilst there is a legitimate case to be made about the whitewashing of roles in Hollywood, and an interesting discussion which can be had out of it, going out of your way to objectify the Caucasian-ness of the skin of a Caucasian actor is more akin to the sort of body-shaming that is contrary to scans_daily's ethos.

No one should be made fun of over their skintone simply because of it's colour, regardless of whether it's one associated with privilege or not.

Please avoid such comparisons in future. Critique the casting decision process and the general principle of whitewashing as much as you wish, but leave the actor out of it.

In the interests of all concerned, we are freezing this thread. Let's all move along.