informationgeek: (lyra)
[personal profile] informationgeek posting in [community profile] scans_daily

Writer: Jeph Loeb
Artist: David Finch
Inker: Danny Miki
Colorist: Steve Firchow

You know what? Let's discuss more Marvel crap by looking at what fatally wounded the Ultimate Universe? It's also by Jeph Loeb.

So I'm just going to provide you with a collection of scenes and let them stand for themselves.












Date: 2016-05-07 08:49 pm (UTC)
byc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] byc
Blob is about to get hungry...

Date: 2016-05-07 10:24 pm (UTC)
veleda_k: Stock picture of a book with my screen name (Default)
From: [personal profile] veleda_k
How did this all happen? I mean, who sat down and thought it would be a good a idea?

Take, Civil War. Some people loathe it, yeah. But other people think it was great. It's easy to to see why the concept was attractive. Superheroes fighting... but more so! Best friends at odds! And the issue was one that would logically bring about conflict. And it's clear where the flaws were as well. Inconsistency among writers regarding character motivations, and the fact that no one ever made it clear what the damn registration act actually said being chief among them. If it was a mess, it was a mess that could be understood.

This, though? Man, I don't get it.

Someone told me once that 1610

Date: 2016-05-07 10:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] 7dialsmystery
...was a parody of 616 written by someone who hates Marvel. It seems like a solid theory.

Re: Someone told me once that 1610

Date: 2016-05-08 08:32 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
They'd be wrong, because there was handfuls of great stuff in the UU. Saying that is telling Bendis, Vaughan and a few others they didn't get the memo. It's nonsense.

Re: Someone told me once that 1610

Date: 2016-05-10 12:03 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] 7dialsmystery
Maybe they just ignored the memo because almost every single character in 1610 is incredibly awful.

Date: 2016-05-07 10:42 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
To be blunt I think Loeb was in a poor place after his son died and this was an output for his bad feelings.

Date: 2016-05-07 10:44 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
I would have thought the whole "Death of Captain America" mourning miniseries might have got it out of his system...

Date: 2016-05-07 10:50 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
He still hasn't gotten it out of his system yet. He wrote a Superman story that incorporated his death and the new Nova is based off him.

And before anyone infers otherwise I don't blame him for feeling this way but I do think Marvel should at least have held him back a little.

Date: 2016-05-08 05:23 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
I think he's gotten through the worst of it, thankfully. Nova is pretty good.

If Ultimatum was his attempt to deal with his grief and trauma, his most recent work seems to be focused on creating stories his son would have loved.
Edited Date: 2016-05-08 05:24 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-05-08 02:36 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
That, and because of his personal tragedy I wonder if people who normally would have said "Hell no!" and sent him back to his word processor to start from scratch didn't have the heart to tell him what kind of crap he was producing.

Date: 2016-05-08 03:48 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
From what i have seen, when a writer is going through grief, they usually have a harder time saying "no" since writing is one of the ways they have to deal with it, so it will probably be crap, it's still something they need to do. i remember the same happened with Friends (an episode about a cat being the reincarnation of someone's mom, i think?)

Date: 2016-05-07 10:58 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
..........Jeph Loeb... was griefing the death of his kid and...... well...

Date: 2016-05-08 05:19 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
I do feel bad for Loeb and get that he was trying to deal with his bad feelings through his work.

OTOH..."Tastes like chicken".

Date: 2016-05-07 10:43 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
Icy Dead People!

Date: 2016-05-07 11:19 pm (UTC)
lyricalswagger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lyricalswagger

Let it go.

Date: 2016-05-08 08:31 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
Happily, I've never seen that movie nor heard that song.

Date: 2016-05-09 03:46 am (UTC)
ozaline: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
What about Suburban Commando? I was Frozen Today!

Date: 2016-05-07 10:46 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
While it had its ups and downs this before I think this is what started the slow death of the a Ultimate universe. It's just an ugly repellant piece of work that ruined the hard work other writers had put before.

I think Bendis jokingly called this superhero torture porn and it's probably the most apt description I can think of.

Date: 2016-05-08 02:57 am (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
Yep. It's the thing that made me be all like for the overall Ultimate line.
Edited Date: 2016-05-08 02:57 am (UTC)

Date: 2016-05-08 08:35 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
This and Ultimates 3, just before it and - naturally - written by the same guy really slipped a knife between the universe's ribs, yeah. Ultimates 3 was one thing, but at least that only killed Scarlet Witch off; this eliminated swathes of perfectly usable characters with no real grace, all for the sake of shaking things up; while Spider-Man was as strong as ever, the other books noticeably suffered for it; the Fantastic Four never got a book again, for instance.

Date: 2016-05-07 11:18 pm (UTC)
lyricalswagger: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lyricalswagger
This was so bad.

Date: 2016-05-08 12:12 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
At least the "Truth in Advertising" people are earning their paychecks on that last page.

Date: 2016-05-08 02:56 am (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
So...why does Magneto seemingly have Thor's hammer? Or wait, that's not Ultimate Thor's hammer because that has an axe on one end of it.

Did Finch just go, "Eh, screw it! He has a big hammer by his throne. Because reasons."

Date: 2016-05-08 08:33 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
Loeb basically just shrugged at all the changes made to Ultimate Thor and played him as 616 Thor with a beard. This came with the classic hammer suddenly making an inexplicable appearance for no stated reason.

Date: 2016-05-08 03:36 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Remember when Ultimate Thor was interesting?

Date: 2016-05-08 05:13 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] md84
Funny thing is, this series apparently sold pretty well.

Date: 2016-05-08 05:54 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kalanyr
For ongoing works it's not usually the sales of iteration X that work X should be judged by, because peoples buying patterns are super front loaded (even more so in comics where most people have pull lists). It's X+1 that shows you how X was received. It kind of sucks for X+1 if it was actually good since it'll still usually be remembered as the thing that killed the series.

(You see the same thing in video games too where the vast majority of sales take place inside the first month or even the first week).

Date: 2016-05-08 08:38 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
When you're told that this decides the fate of a universe you're following - and was the ONLY Ultimate book running at the time, save for Spider-Man, yeah, it sold well. I personally gave up when they offed Dazzler in the first handful of pages, her reimagining being my favourite character thanks to Vaughan, at that time.

Date: 2016-05-08 08:07 am (UTC)
commodus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] commodus
The Ultimate universe had a whole lot of problems. But this is really nothing but a symptom of its wider issues. Everything had to be unpleasant, every character had to become a grim caricature, villains had to out-evil each other rather than being nuanced people with complex motives.

Take Magneto, for example. Yeah, he's doing bad things. But he genuinely wants to free his kind from oppression. At heart, he has a heroic motive. But what happens in the Ultimates?
He gets his mind wiped, starts teaching disabled children - and then, upon getting his memory back, labels those children with a disgusting slur because of their disability.
This is Magneto, remember. The guy who saw the concentration camps, where Jews and homosexuals and disabled people were routinely thrown into ovens for simply existing.

They take someone with that history, and turn them into a bigoted, genocidal monster, just so we can be shocked at their next zany scheme.
The whole universe was broken from the start. It mistook poor taste and meanness for realism and good storytelling.

Date: 2016-05-08 03:35 pm (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
Pretty much, Spider-Man really was the only really good thing to come out of the Ultimate verse.

Date: 2016-05-08 01:45 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (bear (picnic table))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
It mistook poor taste and meanness for realism and good storytelling.


Date: 2016-05-08 10:01 pm (UTC)
chrisdv: (Default)
From: [personal profile] chrisdv
Best/only good part of the event was Hawkeye calling out Captain Asshole over making dickish comments about Hank Pym after he'd just given his life to stop the Madrox Suicide Bombers from destroying the Triskellion.


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