laughing_tree: (Default)
[personal profile] laughing_tree posting in [community profile] scans_daily

"I didn’t see anyone in the latter group [people who thought Aphra should have died] who were women.

"One of Vader’s core stories - and the one with the most tension, as it’s the one whose end we don’t know - was the whole Vader/Aphra story. Is she going to die? I think the division over the end really comes down to who the reader thinks is having agency in the story. For the latter, I suspect they’d describe the Vader/Aphra story as 'Is Vader going to kill Aphra?' For the former, I suspect they’d describe the story as 'Can Aphra find a way to escape Vader?'

"When an escape plan was set up twenty one issues earlier, and the other building blocks for it arranged since, and Aphra’s squirmed between her divided loyalties for that whole time, I do think Aphra earned that escape. I think that removing her agency as a character in favour of a murderous, domineering man whose ego is sated by the rest of the story would have been bad and arguably sexist storytelling, as well as undercutting Vader’s own story by making his victory too simple."
--Kieron Gillen

"...I have no idea why Imperials would be on Yavin 4."

Date: 2017-01-26 01:05 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Don't have an opinion either way but I'm struggling to see how killing a female character is inherently sexist unless it was presented in a sexist fashion (I.e. fridging) --which Aphra's 'death' was not.

Date: 2017-01-26 02:03 pm (UTC)
speedingtortoise: Happy Platypus (Default)
From: [personal profile] speedingtortoise
It didn't immediately come across as sexist to me either, but thinking about it I think I can see the point being made. When broken down, Aphra's story goes like this (following the path where she actually dies):

Powerful male figure employs/threatens female to help him with sneaky stuff. She proves to be very smart and resourceful and a very interesting character. Upon completing his business with her, the male character immediately kills her off, and the story goes on without her.

In a perfect future world where we don't have issues (or at least as many issues) of women not being well-represented or being killed off to further male-centered stories, her death wouldn't be a big deal. Characters die like this all the time, it happens. But since we DO live in a world where women have and continue to get the short end of the stick in fiction, deaths like this aren't always in the best of taste or respectful to women.

At least, that's how I'm reading into it. I'm sure others might be able to offer some other insight / perspectives.

Date: 2017-01-26 03:07 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
Gender issues honestly never even crossed my mind. I am glad she lived because I thought the death of her character would be a waste.

To be honest I was disappointed more people didn't survive Vader, most of them were rich characters that would have been very interesting to follow further.

Date: 2017-01-26 03:18 pm (UTC)
ozaline: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
I was in suspense all of Rebels season 2 if Ahsoka would survive Vader, assuming she would not, and got a non answer.

I was also in suspense re: Aphra, and glad she did.

Date: 2017-01-26 04:08 pm (UTC)
byc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] byc
Two Mary Sues clashing can have weird endings.

I prefer she lives because she's different enough in this universe that I would like to see more from her.

Date: 2017-01-26 05:04 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tianyulong
I'm sorry, but how is either Aphra or Darth Vader a mary sue? They're both too fleshed out to be mary sues imo.

Date: 2017-01-27 01:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Vader, IMO, is a Mary Sue because his ability to overcome any enemy despite lacking much in the way of convincing cunning. Virtually none of his enemies have ever, for instance, taken into account his well known publicly used abilities and his powers or exploited logical weaknesses like his cybernetics.

Everyone who's not Luke gets PIS around Vader.

And Vader, who has all the restraint of a two year old and no ability to inspire loyalty, somehow outwits everyone he meets.

Date: 2017-01-26 07:56 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Didn't notice the gender issues either, but I'm aware enough of my privilege to acknowledge that just because I don't notice something doesn't mean it's not there. :/

Honestly, I never considered Vader an agent in his own book. He's presented as more of a force of nature: unstoppable, lethal, and completely amoral. You don't root for or against the earthquake/tornado/meteor/etc. in a disaster movie. You root for the folks trying to survive it.


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