[personal profile] history79 posting in [community profile] scans_daily



"The 'Planet X' story was partially intended as a comment on the exhausted, circular nature of the X-Men's ever-popular battle with Magneto and by extension, the equally cyclical nature of superhero franchise re-inventions. I ended the book exactly where I came on board, with Logan killing Magneto AGAIN, as he had done at the end of Scott Lobdell's run. Evil never dies in comic book universes. It just keeps coming back. Imagine Hitler back for the hundredth time to menace mankind. So, in the way that something like 'Marvel Boy' had that insistent 'teenage hard on' engine driving its rhythms, 'Planet X' is steeped in an exhausted, world-weary, 'middle-aged' ennui that spoke directly of both my own and Magneto's frustrations, disillusionment and disconnection, as well as the endless everything-is-not-enough frustrations of a certain segment of comics aging readership. In hindsight, I think I overdid the world weary a little but, you know, my loved ones were dying all around me while I was working on those issues, so I'm entitled to a little stumble into miseryland. Fantomex's line [he accused Magneto of speaking in cliches] summed up my own cynicism at that moment, definitely and seems justified by subsequent plot developments. In my opinion, there really shouldn't have been an actual Xorn - he had to be fake, that was the cruel point of him - and it should have been the genuine Magneto, frayed to the bare, stupid nerve and schizoid-conflicted as he was in Planet X, not just some impostor. There's loads of good stuff in Planet X - it's just that miasma of bleakness and futility which hovers over the whole thing.

What people often forget, of course, is that Magneto, unlike the lovely Sir Ian McKellen, is a mad old terrorist twat. No matter how he justifies his stupid, brutal behaviour, or how anyone else tries to justify it, in the end he's just an old bastard with daft, old ideas based on violence and coercion. I really wanted to make that clear at this time."

- Grant Morrison

Source: http://geoffklock.blogspot.de/2006/07/why-grant-morrisons-magneto-sucks.html




11 pages of 33























Date: 2017-02-06 10:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
I must admit "The watcher is a dirty old bald man" graffiti made me crack up.

Date: 2017-02-06 11:04 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
There's certain parts of this that aren't as terrible as I remember. The core conceit that Magneto's approach is outdated in the new world and that 'his people' want nothing to do with him any more and he was better off as a symbol is fine, but it's the character himself that's so clumsily handled. If he'd been written with just some subtlety, maybe the whole thing wouldn't have fallen apart so badly.

Date: 2017-02-06 11:56 pm (UTC)
indy2012: (Default)
From: [personal profile] indy2012
Hard to be subtle when you are out of your mind on drugs with a pre-existing Texas-sized ego. His plot devolved into an uncharateristic, disorganized shit show because Mags wasn't in his right state of mind, which is in a lot of ways even more dangerous than if he had been more himself. Impulsivity and reactivity are awful traits for an individual with so much power to have *coughtrumpcough*. Mags wasn't the real villain here, anyway. It was that sentient bacteria Sublime.
Morrison can write subtle villainy. The choice to

Date: 2017-02-06 11:57 pm (UTC)
indy2012: (Default)
From: [personal profile] indy2012
exaggerate his villainy was intentional.

Date: 2017-02-07 10:53 am (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
I'm aware of the in-story rationalisation of Magneto being written this way. But that doesn't alter my opinion.

Date: 2017-02-07 03:17 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
Motto. I understand what Morrison was trying to do, this just rang completely false to me. Not just that Magneto is acting completely off-kilter (a fact made even more confusing given how stable Xorn appeared to be), but that Morrison has his voice completely wrong...it's not that you can't have a drug-addled crazy Magneto (though I don't think the story ever earns that aspect), but that he doesn't sound at all like him.

The idea that Morrison was basing most of his writing off of a firm understanding of the 60s versions of the characters and a thin understanding past that point makes a lot of sense, actually.

Date: 2017-02-07 04:23 pm (UTC)
erikred: (take_that_emma)
From: [personal profile] erikred
"I understand what Morrison was trying to do, this just rang completely false to me."

This encapsulates my opinion of everything Morrison's written after Flex Mentallo, frankly.

Date: 2017-02-07 06:34 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Yep. I've occasionally enjoyed Morrison stories, but I've never joined the cult of bowing to his alleged genius. He has lots of creative ideas, most of which seem to arise from fundamental misunderstandings of the characters he's writing about, and his stories tend to collapse into incoherence if they go on very long.

Date: 2017-02-07 06:43 am (UTC)
flint_marko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Then why are most of his villains just mustache-twirling caricatures?

Date: 2017-02-06 11:56 pm (UTC)
byc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] byc
I stopped buying Marvel by this time. I really liked DC and liked Morrison's JLA. I think I realized after Bastion and Zero Tolerance that Marvel and the X-Men just sucked. The stories never seemed to make sense or seemed overly dramatic.

I heard what Morrison did, and even though I didn't follow it, I was angry that a DC guy came in and ruined everything (though I heard he did good things with X-Men as well).

I followed Planet X scans, and it seems quite good. I've changed since this was published. It helped with the Morrison explanation of what he was trying to accomplish.

Date: 2017-02-07 12:09 am (UTC)
zylly: (Some kind of demonic duck!)
From: [personal profile] zylly
While I disagree with Morrison's interpretation of Magneto immensely, my real problem with this is that editorial gave the go-ahead on it all. This strikes me as one of those times where they should have said, "No. If you do this, it will permanently damage others' ability to tell stories with Magneto."

Not that they didn't eventually write themselves out of it anyway, mind, but long-term sustainability is a must in mainstream comics.

Date: 2017-02-07 12:14 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
If I had to guess Grant probably had a certain degree of leverage to do whatever he wanted but they knew he was going to leave soon and they would just undo it when he left.

Date: 2017-02-07 12:20 am (UTC)
zylly: (Interwebs kitteh)
From: [personal profile] zylly
I'd guess that as well. He'd built up considerable cache by this point in his career.

Which has brought low more than one rising star, when they stop having to deal with limits.

Date: 2017-02-07 08:27 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Yeah, and that worked so well with Xorn... I remember some confusion with Ernst too...

Date: 2017-02-07 09:12 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Bringing Magneto back and saying "That guy wasn't me" was as good as an outcome you could expect after what Morrison did.

Date: 2017-02-07 12:49 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Quite. It wasn't that well thought out in that.

And really, Magneto had become pretty much a different character well before that.

Date: 2017-02-07 02:38 am (UTC)
zylly: (Pabu)
From: [personal profile] zylly
It's often a problem with comics. See, for example, turning Tony Stark into so hated and despised an individual they had to reset his brains to factory settings.

However good the story you want to write today is, someone has to be able to write stories with them tomorrow.

Date: 2017-02-07 03:47 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Right. The future must be considered.

Indeed, sometimes I find some stories are the opposite- I hate 'em in themselves but they leave good ground for the tomorrow so I end up ok with them being there (IDW Transformers, All Hail Megatron sucked in itself. It also lead to some interesting aftermaths that ended up really cool and inform the comic to this day- an Earth that suffered a lot of damage from Decepticons but also had a lot of cybertronian tech leak into it and Optimus having a more personal stake in trying to fix things even when he's not always wanted).

Date: 2017-02-08 12:01 am (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
I agree. We had to wade through some stories of variable quality, but they set up the current crop of TF books, and they're awesome.

Date: 2017-02-07 01:05 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] xakko
My understanding is that we nearly got Morrison on Ultimate X-men, which I think would have been a much better fit.

In his interview in Comic Creaters on the X-men, I felt he really hadn't followed much of Claremont or subsequent writers except in the broadest strokes. His opinion of Cyclops really seemed to be based on the characterization from the 60's

Date: 2017-02-07 02:46 am (UTC)
zylly: (Alot)
From: [personal profile] zylly
Yeah, I can see that working better. A little more free reign, and the overall complexity of it would have played out better.

Date: 2017-02-07 12:19 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Putting the complete character assassination aside, the imagery of the decapitated Xorn head is pretty effective imo.
Edited Date: 2017-02-07 12:48 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-02-07 04:48 am (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
Still pisses me off Jean had to die. I want her to come back. Editorial mandate be damned.

Date: 2017-02-08 01:10 am (UTC)
lamashtar: "Wolverine does not appear in this issue" (Wolverine not appearing in this issue)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
I think the only way to avoid same-story syndrome is to do what DC did with the multiple versions ending up in the same reality. They can't ALL go Phoenix.

Date: 2017-02-07 05:35 am (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
I'm honestly amazed Jean has had the fortitude to stay dead since this story.

Date: 2017-02-07 06:19 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
If it was a choice between being Mostly Dead or risk being in modern X-Men comics, not hard to see which one she'd chose.

Date: 2017-02-07 08:31 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Katie Cook Doug)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I still hold that Doug Ramsey actively sought to avoid being resurrected in the 1990's because it would have meant being in the 1990's X-Men comics

Date: 2017-02-07 09:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Doug knew what was goin' on.

Date: 2017-02-07 09:20 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
Apropos of nothing, is there a way to put people on "ignore" here ?

Date: 2017-02-07 01:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
RIP Xorn pretending to be Magneto pretending to be Xorn. You won't be missed.

Speaking of character deaths, I'm surprised Jean's has stuck (her terrible alternate reality younger self doesn't count). Also her telling Scott to "live" seems like a twist of the knife given his fate. I guess we're headed for the bad future at the end of this run after all. Save us Beak Jr!

Date: 2017-02-07 04:26 pm (UTC)
erikred: (athos)
From: [personal profile] erikred
"No matter how he justifies his stupid, brutal behaviour, or how anyone else tries to justify it, in the end he's just an old bastard with daft, old ideas based on violence and coercion. I really wanted to make that clear at this time."

"Also, he never returns my calls. Wait, not Magneto. Alan Moore."

Date: 2017-02-07 06:38 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Thank you for the best chuckle I've had all day!

Date: 2017-02-07 05:16 pm (UTC)
every_spiegel: (DOOM)
From: [personal profile] every_spiegel
Awww, I forgot that Grant called sir Ian "lovely" ❤

Date: 2017-02-07 05:23 pm (UTC)
every_spiegel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] every_spiegel
Aaaah! And I never noticed the upside-down Earth in the final pages! Wow.

Date: 2017-02-07 06:43 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Wasn't part of his nonsensical plan to make the magnetic poles flip, which Morrison apparently thought would actually tip the planet itself over 180° on its axis rather than just mess up electronics and bird migration?

Date: 2017-02-07 07:37 pm (UTC)
every_spiegel: (DOOM)
From: [personal profile] every_spiegel
Do you really think Morrison to be stupid? Than I'll have to challenge you to a duel. That was a metaphor, a blatant one, yes. I just forgot or didn't see the Earth flipped on these final pages when I read it, and I had a wow-moment %)

Date: 2017-02-07 10:27 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
There have been "Up South Maps." There was even a one shown in a West Wing episode.

http://www.danielyeow.com/wp-content/uploads/upside_down_world_map.jpg

Date: 2017-02-08 01:25 am (UTC)
every_spiegel: (Default)
From: [personal profile] every_spiegel
Okay, do you think me to be stupid? (Although I won't challenge you to a duel in any case, that I'd do for Grant only.)

Date: 2017-02-07 10:33 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Chuck Austen was able to follow this up in "Of Darkest Nights" in UNCANNY X-MEN #442-443. And very well, I thought.

Date: 2017-02-08 12:39 am (UTC)
shakalooloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shakalooloo
So how was Magneto able to give Jean a stroke after removing his helmet? Surely in the time it takes Xavier to think it, he's out cold. This should have ended at 'enough'.

Date: 2017-02-08 01:31 am (UTC)
every_spiegel: (iron)
From: [personal profile] every_spiegel
Even if we presume that was Magneto for the time being (and not a being with a star for a brain), he always had a strong resistance to telepathy and hence many will/mind battles with Xavier :D

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