Date: 2017-02-14 10:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Dammit, Simon...
Now don't get me wrong, love Simon, but... this ain't a good showing for him.

Date: 2017-02-15 02:04 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Actually, I think it's not a good look for Batman.

Literally everything Simon says is correct, and Gordon comes across as not so much sticking up for the law as sticking up for his buddy. (I mean really, you're letting multiple vigilantes run around your town in armored cars and fighter jets, but a single gun is the straw that breaks the camel's back for you?)

Of course, the point here is that Batman would never work with someone who felt he had to rely on a gun to enforce the law oh wait Jim Gordon is STANDING RIGHT THERE.

Okay, let's try again: Batman feels that *superheroes* should be above guns and is treating Baz as a sidekick because Baz IS fairly new at this. That's forgivable, but refusing to work with Baz because of it is still pretty dumb. Baz isn't even proposing to kill any bad guys, just "hurt" them if his power ring fails. And while we're having this tremendously mature discussion, Jessica seems to be the only actual superhero left in the room.

Of course, Baz has his own issues surrounding guns and the lack thereof and he's getting pretty steamed to make his point, but you know what? He's the new guy, he's supposed to be a little raw. Batman doesn't really have that excuse.
Edited Date: 2017-02-15 02:11 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-02-15 02:22 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Oh, I never said it was making Batsy look any better.
Just after several decades of his being all "MY CITY! MINE MINE MINE! MINE! MY CITY MINE!"... it's just sort of expected by now that he's acting like that.

And Simon's words are hitting incredibly close to all the things Batman's against. And he's depicted doing it... pretty aggressively, stomping on those issues even more.
(And because we, the audience, know more, it makes Simon's attitude toward them worse. We know that Bruce is against them, and why, but Simon don't.)
Now, if Batman could just... oh, explain that he has personal issues with guns due to losing family members due to gun crime...

Also, it would be really nice if just once during one of Batman's "THIS IS MY CITY!" garbage, a passing Gothamite, or heck, even a cop, would call him out on the dick-measuring crap.
"Hey, cape-boy! Don't the several million other people in this burg get a say on who gets to save us? No? Just you?"

Date: 2017-02-15 03:35 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] silicondream
Note that Gordon does have a say in this particular scene, and he happens to be on Batman's side about the gun. Maybe that's why Bruce is making such a big deal about it; it's not like he hasn't worked with armed superguys before.

I still don't know why he's so...shrieky here, though. Normally I'd expect him to just swipe the gun, or give Simon a gravelly-voiced Bat-warning and disappear on him. Screaming in Simon's face seems a bit out of character.
Edited Date: 2017-02-15 03:36 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-02-15 02:54 pm (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
The one thing I did like about the scene was Gordon's "you need a permit." Sure, its stupid and arbritrary and he's ignoring Batman's use of weaponry thats EVEN MORE ILLEGAL, so it makes Gordon look like a corrupt small town sheriff picking on the foreign stranger...

But its a very real world note on the complications of legal gun ownership.

Date: 2017-02-15 09:40 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
how much of Batman's weapons aren't even thought of in laws?

Date: 2017-02-16 01:20 am (UTC)
lamashtar: Female Batman in bikini (Bat-torso)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
Most police officers will arrest you for throwing smoke bombs at people even if they don't hurt anybody. It is illegal in New York to own pepper spray intended to be used on people. That's before we get into the weaponry installed into his car. Street legal? Seriously, of COURSE Batman is all kinds of illegal.

Date: 2017-02-14 10:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
I feel like this could be a lot better if they hadn't drawn Simon like he was practically foaming at the mouth

Date: 2017-02-15 12:21 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Hey, a semi-rational explination as to why Batman doesn't get along with another superhero. Yes, it involves Thomas and Martha Wayne, but not in a petty way.

Date: 2017-02-15 12:42 am (UTC)
thanekos: Lora, crafting. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
I hope everyone whose first day ever this is with Batman enjoys that leaden thud of an inset panel of Thomas and Martha's graves.

Date: 2017-02-15 12:44 am (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
Is this supposed to have guns vs no guns as an actual moral conflict? Because having GL shout and gesiculate wildly about it doesn't help.

Date: 2017-02-15 01:02 am (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
He should toss the gun and spend the rest of the trip using the ring to do nothing but make guns.

Date: 2017-02-15 01:12 am (UTC)
razsolo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] razsolo
This is so silly. In the real world I hate guns - I am very ANTI-guns. But the guy is wearing the most powerful weapon in the universe on his finger, wtf is he gonna do with a gun that's so much more dangerous than his will-powered WMD?

Date: 2017-02-15 02:43 am (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
Seriously. What's a gun gonna do for you, when you're dealing with a threat that's too much for your magic ring to overcome?

Date: 2017-02-15 02:40 pm (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
Actually it makes sense. GLs are constantly running out of power and being left powerless and helpless when that happens. However, its being used as a hysterical plot point by anti-gun nuts.

Date: 2017-02-15 03:24 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
I liked it when rings were more reliable and had 24 hour charges rather than til you run out charges.

Date: 2017-02-15 05:29 pm (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
Right now, its basically 'the web fluid runs out!' plot device.

Date: 2017-02-15 09:50 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Yea, which I'm not fond of. It makes sense with these tiny-little-cartidges which are also expensive, not so much with the universe's greatest tool.

Date: 2017-02-15 02:49 am (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
Why doesn't Batman just take the damn thing from him? If he can snatch the ring off of a Lantern like Hal, surely he can take a gun off of a rookie GL

Date: 2017-02-15 04:02 am (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
Couldn't Batman just do the old "rubber bullets only" compromise that DC lazily trots out whenever he needs to team with Red Hood, who's previously be characterized as an actively murderous vigilante?

Date: 2017-02-15 02:41 pm (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
Batman needs to adopt Simon before he'll accept that compromise.

Date: 2017-02-15 04:31 am (UTC)
tigerkaya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tigerkaya
Batman you hypocritical asshole, Baez just shoot this piece f shit in the kneecaps. He'll probably have his league buddy's make a robot leg.

Batman Logic

Date: 2017-02-15 06:20 am (UTC)
silverzeo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverzeo
It's wrong to have a gun for self-defense in one of the most crime ridden cities EVER... but okay to fire a missile from your car after a group of confused people who have just been disarmed as a means to "keep thigns from being elevated" (The mighty morhpin Power Rangers team up story)...

Date: 2017-02-15 08:31 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
...invisible gun?

Date: 2017-02-15 11:07 am (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
I really don't like the art on this issue. These pages aren't too bad, but elsewhere in the issue, it's on Greg Land level of obvious 'referencing' (and I think using some of the same reference photos - Jessica has the same shocked face he uses a lot)... (I'd be willing to lay money that the difference is mostly due to there being two inkers...I wager one tried to make the tracing less obvious, the other just followed the pencils.)

Date: 2017-02-15 02:42 pm (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
Yeah, I made a tasteless joke about the final page looking like Land's pornface. Jessica's lips aren't glistening but its pretty blatant.

Date: 2017-02-15 12:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
wow, I am really surprised people are coming down on Simon's side on this. I mean him having a gun wasn't popular originally and Batman not liking guns is perfectly reasonable

Edited Date: 2017-02-15 12:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-02-15 02:48 pm (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
Because a GL ring is an atomic weapon. Its ludicrous to allow one but not the other. And Batman uses many weapons that you'd need special permissions from authorities for. Its blatantly NOT about the law or reasonable response to violence. Its fetishing the gun. Batman sees it as murder fetish, Simon sees it as protection fetish. Gordon is either exercising petty control over the gods visiting his city or supporting his criminal vigilante friend. Jessica is the only one shown seeing clearly here.

Date: 2017-02-15 05:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
a GL is very easily something other than that though. Not so for a gun. You got to try hard to kill with a GL ring, not so with a gun

Date: 2017-02-15 05:36 pm (UTC)
lamashtar: The Great Hal Jordan (awesome)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
While rings have safety features against direct damage, its extremely easy to do untold devastation by simply dropping things. A handgun does extremely limited lethal damage. There's no possibility of destroying a city block, for instance.

There are lots of devices that require permits for equivalent damage in demolition, wrecking ball use, et cetera. Superheroes bypass those because of their position. Singling out a gun instead of the ring is a statement. It is no longer about logic.

Date: 2017-02-16 03:46 am (UTC)
lieut_kettch: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lieut_kettch
So tell me why Bats doesn't have a problem with the GCPD being armed but an intergalactic law enforcement officer can't have a backup weapon?


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