laughing_tree: (Seaworth)
[personal profile] laughing_tree posting in [community profile] scans_daily

"I absolutely believe you can write superhero comics where violence is either peripheral, or even entirely absent. The point of superhero comics is to inspire people to try to be their best selves. They're about people trying to help others and make the world a better place, not a more violent one. Now of course, they take place in a fantasy world where certain things, like vigilantism, are laudable. But even still- I try to find ways to make sure the violence is either justified by some moral criteria, or as an incomplete solution. Usually, the violence in my books is stuff that passes the time until someone comes up with the real solution. Though I've by no means got a perfect record on this front- again, fantasy world, "good" violence, all part of the show. Still try. Some superheroes really benefit from tacking towards nonviolence btw: Superman and Fantastic Four come to mind immediately. Cap, in my mind, comes very close to the line- he's a soldier, but he should always be reluctant to fight. Has to be a necessity. Same for Sam, btw, which is why my favorite arc is Americops, because really, it all kicks off with him trying to PREVENT a fight." -- Nick Spencer

Date: 2017-02-27 01:49 am (UTC)
freezer: (FAIL)
From: [personal profile] freezer
"What kind of a hero would I be if -- when it happened to me -- I just called up y super-buddies and got myself out of it?"

A smart one? Far smarter than you're being right now?

Date: 2017-02-27 02:08 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
One in a teambook instead of a solo, maybe? Team book people are better at asking help.

Also, one who knows the difference from just being bailed out, and seeking help. Ala the times someone has been accused and then got She-Hulk or Daredevil to be their lawyers and then those individuals to get them off via lawyering.
Edited Date: 2017-02-27 02:09 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-02-27 01:53 am (UTC)
thanekos: Lora, crafting. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
If this were an unsubtle political cartoon, that last scene would have the cop riding in from the reverse angle, the POV would be behind him, and the horse would be doing what you can occasionally see police horses do on the streets when you look at them from behind.

Date: 2017-02-27 02:01 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
You'd think Sam might be a little suspicious about Steve cussing so casually.
Although he does have a lot on his mind.
Like Rage's endless soapboxing.

(There's probably not going to be a panel in a few issues where Sam flashes back to that and goes "wait a minute, did Steve swear? How did I not notice?", is there?)

Date: 2017-02-27 02:24 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Was Sam that militant, even with the sliding time scale? In fact, some characters thought Sam wasn't militant enough. Leila Taylor is an example.

Date: 2017-02-27 04:52 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
What's the moral quandary here? He's got footage of 'cops' beating on an innocent man, and he's debating about whether to release it because???

Date: 2017-02-27 05:48 am (UTC)
stolisomancer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stolisomancer
The page is even right there. Sam's worried that he might start riots.

It's a reasonable concern, although I think Spencer's making a mistake by pitching it as a big moral dilemma.

Date: 2017-02-27 06:09 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
How is that even a consideration. 'Maybe I shouldn't prove a man's innocence because some bigots might get irrationally violent about it.' Like, why even be a superhero when some people out there might support supervillains. That's how dumb this moral quandary is.

Date: 2017-02-27 10:28 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
I thought it was more due to Rage's objection, since he figures he's a high profile enough case that the world can more clearly see what the system does to people of color.

Approximation of his words from memory, mind.

Date: 2017-02-27 10:45 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
??? Rage is doing his thing to draw attention to the fact that black men are unfairly targeted by the legal system. Actual video evidence of him being beat up by a bunch of Americops is going to prove that point super hard.

Date: 2017-02-27 12:43 pm (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
This is true, but also known only because one of his super hero allies/supporters happens to literally have eyes everywhere-- a privilege most don't have, like the big-time lawyers offered.

To say nothing of how this will go over when people find out Captain America 2 got the footage by channeling his inner Dark Knight and spying on everyone at once.

Date: 2017-02-27 01:40 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
It's already news that the footage exists, though, so that's all irrelevant. Sam went to the mayor's aide and told him all about it.

Date: 2017-02-27 10:42 am (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
Rioting wouldn't just involve bigots, it'd also involve those outraged at the police brutality but who take their anger too far, getting carried away and tipping protesting into violence. It's going to get more innocent black people arrested.

And rioting carries a very real risk of getting people killed, and that's something that should always be a consideration for a superhero.

Date: 2017-02-27 10:49 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Rage is already doing a public protest against police brutality and unfair sentencing, people are already going to be outraged by his treatment. How is providing video proof of his innocence supposed to inflame outrage any further? If you just leave him in jail to get railroaded it'll fix everything?

It's like, people rioted over Michael Brown, so if you had video evidence proving Brown was blameless, maybe you should sit on it so you don't inflame racial tensions any further??? What world does this logic make sense in?

Date: 2017-02-27 11:25 am (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
People will be more outraged at a certain injustice than the strong possibility of one. People will be more outraged at seeing an injustice with their eyes than just hearing a description of it.

Especially since it seems the kind of footage where a person who's committed to not believing is going to keep on not believing (the only sign of the real perp is a quick blur too brief to make out, there's no footage of what happens inside the store). It's going to stir up the controversy, not settle it.

I'm not saying sitting on the evidence is in any way a better option. It isn't. But I don't see the worry about inflaming tensions as an absurd one. Superheroes should always at least have concerns when something might risk people's lives.

Date: 2017-02-27 11:59 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
It's 100% absurd to suggest that for the sake of keeping the peace, maybe you should suppress evidence that an injustice even occurred, rather than righting the wrong that has been done. It's fucking ridiculous, especially so for a superhero comic. Even just bringing up the possibility, must less presenting it as a serious moral quandary.

It's ridiculous to me that you think revealing the video would aggravate tensions, it's ridiculous to me that anyone could think that. Are people going to be rioting over Rage once they see him be exonerated by the evidence? What absolutely is going to inflame tensions is seeing an injustice go unpunished - and there are going to be people who absolutely believe Rage is innocent even without the footage. Not revealing the tape is just going to allow the tensions to get worse.

And the video does exonerate him. The footage shows a blur smashing the window, and then Rage wandering by to see what's going on. That's plenty to show that Rage didn't break in there himself, and to introduce more than enough doubt to get him acquitted. Sure, there are people who will still think he's guilty anyway, but they're idiots (and probably bigots), so who cares about them?

Date: 2017-02-27 01:04 pm (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
You're right. It's ridiculous that footage of police brutality would inflame racial tension! Ridiculous, I say!

Date: 2017-02-27 01:27 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Yeah, it's ridiculous because this is apparently already national news and Rage's side of the story is already out there and people on the street already know the footage exists. If this situation is so volatile, the nation should be tearing itself apart already. Sitting on the footage is guaranteed to inflame racial tensions if it doesn't come out in time for the trial. Releasing it is the only option to lessen racial tensions by trying to get Rage acquitted.

In what situation will people be outraged about a case, and then new evidence surfaces saying, 'hey, you're right', and this inflames them enough to start rioting about it?

Date: 2017-02-27 11:58 pm (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
Between this and the next issue, it's high time the recently returned to life Night Thrasher team up with Sam.

Date: 2017-02-28 12:42 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
At first, I was thinking "where the hell is Dwayne"?
But considering that he was part of the New Warriors during the Stamford disaster, it's understandable that he'd stay away from Rage. Elvin being associated with "irresponsible heroes that caused the death of children" would make things worse for him.

Date: 2017-02-28 12:46 am (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
That's true. The next issue even makes it a point that Rage wasn't part of the team at that time.

But still, he was Elvin's guardian. He ought to be doing something.

Date: 2017-03-01 07:13 pm (UTC)
kore: (Captain America - not a straight man)
From: [personal profile] kore
No, Sam! Don't listen to him! He's eeeeeeevil! //Time Bandits

....has Steve ever been that "the ends totally justify the means, cause over consequences" before? It seems a little uncharacteristic, but I haven't kept up with his books for a while.


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