Date: 2017-03-11 12:03 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Hmm. Emma Frost's debut issue, just but two days after many discussions about her.
How... curious.

Claremontian villains are anything but subtle, but smashing through Ye Olde Malte Shop in purple power-armour...
And blowing them up for getting knocked out (which seems like something you would expect from sending but three henchmen against them) ... early Emma was well hardcore.
Also, monumentally harsh.

(Colossus' expression as he peers over Logan's shoulder is adorable. Oh, Piotr...)

The adult Prydes don't make a great impression of themselves.
I mean, wouldn't most parent's reaction to finding their kid sprawled on the floor a few minutes after they'd said they had a horrific headache be, I'unno, concern or alarm, not "geez, the hell's up with you?"
Great parenting they're showing there.

Mind, Xavier manages to out-asshole them by a wide margin earlier in the issue... shame that didn't make the cut. A glorious example of Xavier at his worst and arsehole-iest.

Date: 2017-03-11 12:53 am (UTC)
thanekos: Yoshikage Kira as Kosaku Kawajiri, after the second arrow. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
They do say good things about Chicago's casserole.

Date: 2017-03-11 02:28 am (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
What happened to Kitty and Ororo's faces at the diner? The ice cream sodas must be incredibly good!

Date: 2017-03-11 04:12 am (UTC)
mizerous: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mizerous
Ahh cheesy era X-Men I kinda enjoyed this stuff.

Date: 2017-03-11 04:59 am (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
This is quintessential Emma Frost for me! The ice queen capitalist. She seems to partly survive in Goody Goody Emma as the persona 'Perfection'. God, I miss her.

And oh my lord, this shopkeeper is a hoot. The fact that he and Wolverine are so weirdly alike and talk alike!

And that is why Logan called Colossus 'Petey Pureheart'. :)

Date: 2017-03-11 08:43 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Yeah, I miss this Emma Frost, too. I made a video about her for The Agony Booth a couple years ago that addressed the changes writers made to her character, all of them bad:

As for the shopkeeper and Logan talking alike, according to my friend Dave during the end of Claremont's first run on X-Men, when he was no longer plotting, everybody started sounding like Wolverine. Maybe it's an undisclosed mutant power of his?

Date: 2017-03-11 06:56 pm (UTC)
lamashtar: Female Batman in bikini (Bat-torso)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
Great rundown (literally) on Emma. You did miss one villainous turn...In the Firestar miniseries, Emma tricks Firestar into joining her school. Emma doesn't kill anybody, but it is clearly abusive behavior. In New Warriors, Emma talks about Firestar like she's property. Later with the Avengers, when Emma is a good guy and runs into Firestar, Firestar is highly standoffish and Emma is apologetic.

Also, Emma kills Firestar's horse.
 photo firestar_zpsnzjb82lv.jpg

Pff! Claremont's language tics are so bad in retrospect. I wrote fic attempting to ape every single one of them when I was younger and it is SO embarrassing to read now. Though here, it just seems like Shopkeeper Man and Wolverine are from similar regions.

Date: 2017-03-11 07:25 pm (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Good point regarding the Firestar stuff. It wasn't until after the video was done that I found my copy of the Firestar mini series and then I remembered her appearing in X-Men 193 I think.

If you want to find the creepier Claremont ticks google up Chris Claremont Mind Control Central. The guy really has a thing for sexing up teenage girls. :/

Date: 2017-03-12 01:53 am (UTC)
flint_marko: (Magneto)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Does he really?

Date: 2017-03-12 09:40 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Check out the blog and see. The guy who runs it shows a great many instances of misogyny on Claremont's part. He also seems to have a thing for underage characters being in relationships with adults (i.e. Kitty/Colossus, Doug Ramsey/Psylocke. British Psylocke, that is.).

Date: 2017-03-12 09:20 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: (Magneto)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
I know about that blog, and that guy seems to have an agenda.

But I'm still curious to see when Claremont ever actually sexualized underage girls.

Date: 2017-03-13 10:24 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
The guy has numerous examples on his blog, but one egregious example is when Danielle Moonstar is mindraped by evil Xavier in the X-Men/Micronauts mini series. Or when in X-Men Rachel Summers and Magma are captured by the Hellfire Club and put in French maid outfits and collars. And there are the aforementioned relationships I mentioned.

I don't see an agenda, I see a guy who has noticed that Claremont is a pervert and has shown a mountain of evidence to prove it. Case in point, the entry where Misty Knight and Coleen Wing are hooked on heroin and turned into sex slaves. Classy.

Date: 2017-03-13 12:43 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
How exactly was Moonstar sexualized in that scene with Xavier? And how were Kitty or Doug sexualized, especially when Colossus refused to have sex with her?

And that blog actually praised that cocaine story, so I don't know where you got off that it meant he was a pervert (not to mention I don't recall seeing their being sex slaves?).

Date: 2017-03-13 05:33 pm (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Read the dialogue from that scene, and the fact that Moonstar is dressed in a t-shirt and panties. She's sixteen years old in that story, you're comfortable with that? Comfortable with a sixteen year old girl being sexualized like that, a middle aged man stimulating the pleasure centers of her brain and turning her into his slave?

And Claremont had to end the storyline with Kitty/Colossus, from what I understand, which is why they put in that stupid Colossus/alien girlfriend storyline in the first Secret Wars series. Then they killed off Doug Ramsey to end the Doug/Psylocke storyline.

And this is the story I'm talking about (warning, adult content):

But hey, if you're okay with kids having relationships with adults and teenage girls being sexual playthings, and women being made into heroine addicted sex workers then Chris Claremont must be your favorite author. I think I'm done talking about this. If you and others can't see how creepy Claremont can be your morals are considerably different from my own.

Excuse me, I gotta take a shower. Trying to explain the obvious to you has left me feeling dirty.

Date: 2017-03-13 06:43 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: Haters gonna hate. (Kitty & Piotr)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Nice personal attacks there.

The scene with Evil Xavier was meant to be skeevy, he's an evil guy. If you think that scene was meant to be seen as hot those are your issues.

And Colossus was a teen himself, the second youngest member of the team and only a few years older than Kitty. But keep on acting like he's a middle aged man so you can continue your "Chris Claremont is a dirty old pedophile" delusions.

I'd also like to know where you got the information that Doug was killed off to abort the Psylocke storyline when they barely had any interactions and his death happened after Claremont left the title.

Mod Note!

Date: 2017-03-14 10:31 am (UTC)
icon_uk: Mod Squad icon (Mod Squad)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Reading through the thread, I'm also going to Mod Note this reply, as it goes against one of the most fundamental rules of scans_daily. Personal attacks against fellow posters are not permitted,

You may disagree with other posters opinions as much as you wish, but you WILL remain courteous when doing so.

Mod Note!

Date: 2017-03-13 07:33 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: Mod Squad icon (Mod Squad)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
On scans_daily, drawing attention to problematic patterns in writing is legitimate.

Making negative assertions about a creators character without personal knowledge, or substantial evidence, is not, as it is veering too close to a personal attack.

Critique the work, not the creator.

Date: 2017-03-12 01:51 am (UTC)
flint_marko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Claremont didn't write Firestar.

Date: 2017-03-12 02:31 am (UTC)
lamashtar: Shun the nonbelievers! Shun-na! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lamashtar
It was a segmented reply, to the last part of katefan's comment.


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