sarahnewlin: (Default)
[personal profile] sarahnewlin posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Marvel appears to be in a bit of a slump, and their VP of Sales David Gabriel, knows why.

"What we heard was that people didn’t want any more diversity. They didn’t want female characters out there. That’s what we heard, whether we believe that or not. I don’t know that that’s really true, but that’s what we saw in sales. We saw the sales of any character that was diverse, any character that was new, our female characters, anything that was not a core Marvel character, people were turning their nose up against. That was difficult for us because we had a lot of fresh, new, exciting ideas that we were trying to get out and nothing new really worked."


He followed this up by adding that many of the individual characters like Miles Morales, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Gwen, and Moon Girl are popular, and won’t be going away anytime soon.



More info here

Date: 2017-04-03 01:15 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kd_the_movie
While i do believe that there is a segment of comic readers that are against the diversifying of the Big 2 (see: Trump winning the election), Post Secret Wars Marvel has been underwhelming AF.

*Civil War 2 was for all sakes and purposes a flop.

*The All New All Diff. Avengers run hasnt been that great until recently (and I love mark waid).

*Iron Man lost all momentum because of CW2 (Riri isnt an exciting protagonist and I really dont understand Doom in Stark Armor),

*Xmen vs Inhumans was a shameless ploy to put the Inhumans over.


*No one knows what to do with the GotG.

Secret Empire Cap, Gwenpool, jane!Thor, Ms Marvel, and The Vision have been the only real hits the company has had since Secret Wars.

Date: 2017-04-03 01:32 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aperturedreams
Put the Inhumans over what?

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] kd_the_movie - Date: 2017-04-03 01:36 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] aperturedreams - Date: 2017-04-03 01:38 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] flint_marko - Date: 2017-04-03 04:08 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] aperturedreams - Date: 2017-04-03 04:10 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] wizardru - Date: 2017-04-03 12:51 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] flint_marko - Date: 2017-04-03 02:00 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cygnia - Date: 2017-04-03 01:38 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-03 10:48 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
There is certainly a strong redpill "Bro" demographic in comics, which is why I try to avoid bricks and mortar comic books stores these days, but I do not think they are what is responsible for the sales slow down. There are a lot of other things to consider first, the increasing cover prices (at least one comics fan site has been leading a campaign against 4.99 and 5.99 comics), the reliance of supermega crossovers which interrupt your story already in progress, characters suddenly acting out of character, gimmicks, making adding diversity feel like a gimmick, there is a certain degree of disenchantment with superheroes setting in, there is the general economy which is still not doing so great outside the tech and finance centers, the Bro demographic itself driving away other buyers, and just the general economy.

And on the DC side of the equation, there is their addition long running protection of Eddie Berganza.

There are a lot of reasons. I personally put the crossovers and the cover cost up at the biggest reasons though.

Date: 2017-04-03 05:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] astrakhan42
Iron Man lost its momentum long before Ironheart. That goes all the way back to Kieron Gillen's way too long (and way too Greg Land-filled) run which put a halt to anything interesting from Matt Fraction's run. Mind you, I don't think Bendis has done much to right the course either.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] laughing_tree - Date: 2017-04-05 02:20 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-03 01:21 am (UTC)
tugrul: That Chest (Default)
From: [personal profile] tugrul
I believe this interview and the same comments were already posted but feel free to rehash.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] lordultimus - Date: 2017-04-03 01:36 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-03 01:24 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Jeune fille de Megare statue, B&W (Default)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
G. Willow Wilson has a great rebuttal to this. Notably, I think she's also the absolute best Marvel has at keeping crossover/event blowback in her title under control and in service of her ongoing storylines and character development.

Honestly, though, what they're saying is "we keep attracting new readers but they don't stick, it's obviously the fault of the thing that attracted them in the first place". No, it's because every single time a newer character does well, Marvel immediately destroys their comics with eleven billion crossovers and events, which newer readers have no interest or ability to follow. See: Loki, Agent of Asgard for the prime but not only example. There's no clear jumping-on point for interested movie watchers (hey, Rhodey was in a movie? Quick, kill him!) and big events don't happen on time.

Date: 2017-04-03 01:31 am (UTC)
informationgeek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] informationgeek
That rebuttal had this moment that I ESPECIALLY agree with:

This is a personal opinion, but IMO launching a legacy character by killing off or humiliating the original character sets the legacy character up for failure. Who wants a legacy if the legacy is shitty?

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] lilacsigil - Date: 2017-04-03 07:37 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2017-04-03 11:43 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] deepspaceartist - Date: 2017-04-04 04:09 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-03 02:06 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
What Marvel fails to understand is that long-time readers are used to shitty crossover events by this point but NOT newcomers.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] lilacsigil - Date: 2017-04-03 07:35 am (UTC) - Expand

They're not used to relaunches either

From: [personal profile] chortles81 - Date: 2017-04-03 01:29 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-04 03:51 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I'll give props to Al Ewing for turning crossover drek into story fodder too.

Date: 2017-04-03 01:28 am (UTC)
randyripoff: (Josiah X)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
My cynical side suggests that these comments were made specifically because Mr. Gabriel knew they would be inflammatory, and any publicity is good publicity, right?

In other words, he was trolling.

Date: 2017-04-03 02:04 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
"All Publicity is good publicity" is a Myth. otherwise Ghost in the shell would not have flopped.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cyberghostface - Date: 2017-04-03 03:23 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] locuatico - Date: 2017-04-03 03:30 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cyberghostface - Date: 2017-04-03 04:09 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] chalicother - Date: 2017-04-03 05:48 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] locuatico - Date: 2017-04-03 01:36 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] locuatico - Date: 2017-04-03 01:35 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cyberghostface - Date: 2017-04-03 01:46 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2017-04-03 11:46 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cyberghostface - Date: 2017-04-03 12:15 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2017-04-03 12:28 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] locuatico - Date: 2017-04-03 01:41 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cyberghostface - Date: 2017-04-03 01:47 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] locuatico - Date: 2017-04-03 01:53 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] the_phantom - Date: 2017-04-03 08:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] ozaline - Date: 2017-04-03 09:31 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cyberghostface - Date: 2017-04-03 02:14 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2017-04-03 03:27 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] thezmage - Date: 2017-04-03 04:45 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] katefan - Date: 2017-04-03 08:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] lascoden - Date: 2017-04-04 01:32 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cyberghostface - Date: 2017-04-04 02:04 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] mrstatham - Date: 2017-04-04 05:39 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cyberghostface - Date: 2017-04-04 01:35 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] palgrave_goldenrod - Date: 2017-04-03 03:09 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] janegray - Date: 2017-04-03 03:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] palgrave_goldenrod - Date: 2017-04-03 03:37 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-03 02:42 am (UTC)
michaelsaint: (Default)
From: [personal profile] michaelsaint
Readers make emotional connections to the characters they like. If you remove that character or, in this case, a lot of those characters from the story, those readers will just stop reading.

This isn't a knock on diversity. Readers have connected with characters like Miles, Kamala and Jane!Thor. You just can't give people something to connect with, then take it away and expect them to connect with the new and shiny.

Edited Date: 2017-04-03 04:53 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-03 03:44 am (UTC)
mizerous: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mizerous
At least they aren't removing the character people like to enjoy like Miles or Gwen, but my reaction to this news is...

https://i.imgur.com/9midra0.gif

Date: 2017-04-03 04:11 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] aperturedreams
The same gif that's in the actual post?

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] mizerous - Date: 2017-04-03 04:17 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] mizerous - Date: 2017-04-03 06:10 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] michaelsaint - Date: 2017-04-03 04:55 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-03 09:07 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
Well, they're entitled to their opinions. Funny, though, how the really good creatives (Ellis, Gillen, DeConnick, Fraction, Soule, etc.) are all gravitating towards their own projects at Image, Avatar, etc...

Look at GIANT DAYS. John Allison turned a miniseries about three girls from the North of England going to Uni from a miniseries into an ongoing with no end in sight.

Look at INJECTION. Warren Ellis telling a story about five people - queer, ethnically-diverse, neuro-diverse (NB: don't know if that's the term) and feminist AF - consistently high on sales.

Look at SAGA and PAPER GIRLS and BITCH PLANET and SEX CRIMINALS and UBER and SMILE and GUNNERKRIGG COURT and ohhh shit I just opened up the floodgates of webcomics out there, all of the most popular (Questionable Content, Dumbing of Age, etc.) actively promoting diversity of culture and ideas.

But hey, thank you David Gabriel, for saving comics! You've opened my eyes! All of them are wasting their time, because nobody's *really* interested in diversity and/or female characters. Let's just have five hundred more issues of a guy in a skull t-shirt getting away with violent assault and murder, or holocaust survivors defecting to the Nazis, or something else that requires no critical thought or acknowledgement that people are capable of change!

It's worked up 'til now, RIGHT?!?

Date: 2017-04-03 01:43 pm (UTC)
cynic79: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cynic79
To hear other writers for the Big 2 tell it, none of this is Mr. Gabriel's fault. It's that lousy comics media!

You've got Nick Spencer arguing on Twitter with Chris Arrant from Newsarama about taking Mr. Gabriel's quote out of context (which is fantastically wrong), and Mark Waid condoning violence against Jude Terror from Bleeding Cool to dare poke at his cash machine. Even G. Willow Wilson seemed to take a shot at Bleeding Cool without addressing the real issue with Mr. Gabriel's comments.

I know you folks don't want to insult your bosses, but don't shoot the messenger.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] superboyprime - Date: 2017-04-03 02:52 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cynic79 - Date: 2017-04-03 03:09 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] superboyprime - Date: 2017-04-04 03:34 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] cynic79 - Date: 2017-04-04 11:43 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] donnblake - Date: 2017-04-03 09:18 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-03 11:50 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
The other thread had a bit more context, in that he was summarizing reports he'd got from retailers. It's not neccessarily Marvel's line.

Date: 2017-04-03 02:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
Might be a bit unfair to fans. Iron man, Captain America, Hulk, Thor etc, they might not have been top-selling books, but they've been plugging away for half a century. Indicating that they have some staying power.

You replace the characters with new characters, some are going to stick, some are not. I don't think that is entirely because fans hate diversity, its just that its not the character's they know.

I don't remember Thunderstrike doing all that well just because he was a white male Thor.

Still, got to give Marvel mad props for trying here though. We're not talking about adding a minor character here or there, they've actually replaced almost their entire top line.

Date: 2017-04-03 07:47 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
I think most of the problem is the fifteen kajillion crossovers Marvel launches. How the hell can you track your favorite character if they're constantly appearing in nonsense?

Which got me thinking about Marvel's history of crossovers, and how they pretty much all suck. Secret Wars (the 1980s version) was pretty good. I liked Age of Apocalypse also. All the rest I can think of range from "meh" to god-awful. Or am I missing something?

Date: 2017-04-04 02:13 am (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
I thought Monsters Unleashed was probably the best crossover/event of the last ten years plus.

And Atlantis Attacks! was a lot of fun.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] icon_uk - Date: 2017-04-04 03:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] balbanes - Date: 2017-04-04 05:30 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-03 09:49 pm (UTC)
ozaline: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
I'm a bit nervous, I dropped all my Marvel titles when they dropped digital copies. Now I'd like to add back Spider-Woman, Spider-Gwen, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel, and Squirrel Girl. But yeah hopefully they don't cancel any of those anytime soon.

Date: 2017-04-04 12:45 am (UTC)
an_idol_mind: (Default)
From: [personal profile] an_idol_mind
Totally anecdotal evidence on my part, but here's the reason I personally quit reading Marvel:

1) The big heroes of the Marvel Universe are almost universally morally repugnant heroes. Marvel writers seem to believe that character complexity can't exist unless a character does something morally wrong. In actuality, what made the universe appealing in the first place was the fact that it was populated by flawed characters who, despite everything, were still good people.

2) They killed my favorite character (the Hulk) off like an absolute chump in a story that made no sense and accomplished nothing.

3) There's no sense in getting invested in the setting because it changes in apocalyptic ways every six months. While I don't want the setting to remain static, I do want some sort of baseline that I can use to ground myself.

4) Despite everything, I was interested in reading the Totally Awesome Hulk...except that it cost $4.99. Despite the fact that I like Amadeus Cho and love Greg Pak's work, $4.99 is a steep price for a book I'm not guaranteed to like - especially since it got yanked into the Civil War II BS in its first year and especially since I can get 2-3 EXCELLENT comics from IDW, Image, and Dynamite for the same price.

Date: 2017-04-04 03:46 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Phil Jimenez just posted an interesting comment on Facebook;

In a chat with J Scott Campbell (who is awesome, by the way), I wrote: "As an aside, because I was an X-Men, New Mutants, Alpha Flight Marvel fan -- not an Avengers Marvel fan growing up -- I was super-used to physically and sexually diverse characters in lead roles in my books. Aside from the fact that PoC, women, LGBTQ people are raised reading adventures about other people and accepting it as the norm -- until the past 15/20 years or so, that's just how it was -- I was really lucky in that it never occurred to me that a black woman or an Indigenous teen age girl couldn't lead a team or teams in the Marvel U, or a a highly ethnically/religiously/economically diverse team wasn't just "normal," or that when the white guy leader blows up (literally) the team becomes a thousand times more interesting without him. Marvel Comics themselves trained me to crave ethnic and gender difference in Marvel Comics -- so I'm always amazed by Marvel fans who resist it, I guess."
EDIT: And Morgan Dontanville just reminded me that "our" Avengers team growing up had a black woman -- Monica Rambeau, at the time the most powerful Avenger -- as its leader!

Date: 2017-04-04 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
You know that Aaron, the Captain, Elsa and Tabby are rolling their eyes right now.
Edited Date: 2017-04-04 05:25 pm (UTC)

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] laughing_tree - Date: 2017-04-05 02:15 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2017-04-05 01:09 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
There's probably quite a lot of truth in the idea that retailers are pretty conservative about what titles they chose to stock, but pointing the finger at retailers is a case of once again Marvel sidestepping any failings on their part to pass the blame onto retailers. Honestly, the way the company treat the people who stock their products is appalling and seems to be having a detrimental effect on sales too.

And it's just one of a shed load of reasons why Marvel titles aren't selling well - but diversity isn't one. Maybe more that they seem to view the idea that you can create legacy characters by screwing over the old versions to make new versions popular. Or that Marvel simply don't have legacy characters in the same way as DC does. The mantle of Wolverine doesn't get passed down every few years like the Flash does, for example. But Marvel have been bad at creating and promoting new characters that -aren't- framed as legacy characters, pretty much since Runaways.

Or maybe it's the fact that Secret Wars provided the perfect jumping off point for many people, myself included.

Or the fact that people are more entertained by superheroics than they are the constant hero-on-hero fistfights that Marvel promote as events. Avengers vs X-men. X-men vs Inhumans. Civil War. Maybe people are just tired of squabbling being promoted as events and want a clear line between heroes and villains again.

But I must admit, I was shocked by how poorly Marvel are performing. 29,000 used to be the cancellation point for a Marvel comic less than ten years ago. Now it's Top 10.

Profile

scans_daily: (Default)
Scans Daily

Extras

Founded by girl geeks and members of the slash fandom, [community profile] scans_daily strives to provide an atmosphere which is LGBTQ-friendly, anti-racist, anti-ableist, woman-friendly and otherwise discrimination and harassment free.

Bottom line: If slash, feminism or anti-oppressive practice makes you react negatively, [community profile] scans_daily is probably not for you.

Please read the community ethos and rules before posting or commenting.

October 2017

S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 2425262728
293031    

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags