Date: 2017-04-03 04:01 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
I both loved and hated this series.

loved the homages to 80's teen films.

loved that it dealt with heroes who have been screwed over or pushed under the rug by the bigger heroes.

loved that it dealt with them coping with their powers....

hated that they failed to acknowledge half the time that they made their own choices in life and kind just wanted to blame superheroeing or their powers for the turn their life took.

hated that Katie was like "I never had a normal child hood" she LOVED her powers and was one of the most well adjusted power pack members.

I liked it better when they stopped complaining and took responsibility for their actions and took action. (which I think was the point of this book)

Date: 2017-04-03 05:38 pm (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
Katie? I don't remember Katie appearing, only having a short phone call with Julie.

Date: 2017-04-03 05:53 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
ugh I meant Julie... I read it wrong

Date: 2017-04-03 08:00 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Thankfully Julie does go back to being a superhero later, most of the people here do in fact.

This was also the mini series that turned Phil Urich into a villain.

Date: 2017-04-04 10:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
I don't think it's impossible that while Julie loved being a super heroin as a kid, once she got older, she took a look back at it and thought it ruined her childhood.
Like kids who may love being actors or sport champions, but then may regret to not have known a "normal" childhood.

Anyway, I loved this series too, but the ending, or rather the lack of proper ending ruined it for me. In terms of number of questions left unanswered, Losers is at the same level as Lost.

Date: 2017-04-03 07:03 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] remial
this reminds me of the oneshot my group played of Shadowrun where our group of criminal lowlifes all met in group therapy.
Our street-sam had a breakthrough realizing that the reason he took such joy in gunning down authority figures was because he was subconsciously viewing them as his abusive step father.
it was glorious.

Date: 2017-04-03 07:16 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I do see a distinct difference between those who chose to utilise costumes/weapons that grant them powers and those for whom the powers are a part of them. Turbo and Darkhawk CAN become ordinary people just by putting the costumes away, Lightspeed and Ricchocet cannot.

Date: 2017-04-03 08:01 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Isn't Darkhawk's suit a part of him though?

Date: 2017-04-03 11:07 pm (UTC)
dragontail: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragontail
Yes and no. It's not a suit... at least, it wasn't supposed to be. Originally he used his amulet to swap his consciousness into an android body that was stored in interdimensional space (his human body then went into that same storage). By the end of his 90s run, he could mentally morph from human to an enhanced human version of the android form (which was no longer robotic) so I guess that's considered armour (wasn't really explained as it happened on the last few pages of the final issue of a cancelled series). It's been treated as armour sometimes and an android body at other times ever since, and became even more confusing by the end of the Dan Abnett/War of Kings run.

Consistency ain't a watchword in Darkhawk presentation, sadly.

Date: 2017-04-03 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
didn't this dramatically mischaracterize a ton of characters

Date: 2017-04-03 10:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Pretty much.

Julia, or any of the power pack really, hardly lost their childhood because of their powers. Their series ended before super angst became a thing.

Darkhawk never really had rage issues prior to this, that was thrown in...because reasons?

Turbo had some trauma in losing her best friend and sorta dating a supervillain, really avoided most of the trauma associated with being a cape.

And hell, Ricochet barely had a career prior to this.

I like the idea of a superhero support group, but not one that treats it as AA. Because these characters don't really justify it (Mattie aside), and it goes against the tide of comics. All characters return to their costumes, so why make an organization that can only be a failure?

Date: 2017-04-03 11:04 pm (UTC)
dragontail: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragontail
Darkhawk never really had rage issues prior to this, that was thrown in...because reasons?

Chris Powell had a rotten temper throughout the 90s run of Darkhawk and it was portrayed - to my mind, anyway - as more of a problem than "mere" teenage acting out, as evidenced by his moral struggle over killing bad guys and early empathy for the Punisher. By the time he (and most of this group) appeared in Runaways (which was the springboard for this), Brian Vaughan evolved that into a full-blown problem with rage. This series continued it.

Unfortunately (again, my opinion), later stuff wiped it all away in favour of the "his armour is incompatible with his biology and driving him mad" trope. I enjoyed that less than the idea of a 90s teen with a fractured home life and anger management issues developing even bigger issues due to unchecked power and intermittent peer support. And I say that as a huge fan of the character and his mythos.

TL; DR: He had anger issues before this that writers turned into rage issues, and I felt it was in character. Though I'm not qualified to speak on everyone else, because I came to this series for Darkhawk :)

Date: 2017-04-03 11:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
He had a temper, but remember for a time he thought his father a crooked, ruthless cop. Chris' moral struggle was as muc about being like his father as it was dealing with scumbags. He was never Wolverine level, and in the Warriors, he actually had a support network.

The anger that we saw in Runaways didn't mesh with that, IMO and really, just having the Loners be a support network works better than AA but with powers

Date: 2017-04-04 11:20 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Don't forget Phil waking up one day and deciding to become evil. It didn't work in Identity Crisis and it didn't work here.
Edited Date: 2017-04-04 11:23 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-04 06:03 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Not exactly the same, since we know the Goblin Serum drives folk crazy.

Date: 2017-04-04 11:45 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
His solo series explicitly said it was a different formula. His sanity was in tact (despite his signature move being a "lunatic laugh") and he didn't even have powers without the suit.

Of course the most consistent thing about the Goblin Formula is its inconsistency so ...

Date: 2017-04-06 04:31 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Didn't he keep getting visions of Harry and Norman though? It did seem like the serum was messing with him on some level.

Date: 2017-04-03 11:10 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
I miss Mattie.

Date: 2017-04-04 02:03 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
She was in Silk recently.

Date: 2017-04-04 08:35 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
*sigh*...I know, but it was part of a contrived event.

Date: 2017-04-06 04:33 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood

Still, i wish they would have used the event to bring her back, especially since some revived villains got to stay.

Date: 2017-04-04 10:20 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
Mattie revealing that she was only pretending to be broken was one of my favorite parts of the comics.
After what happened to her in Alias, I was expecting her to be in a really bad state, so I buyed her act. But she was able to get up and to come back in the game.

Date: 2017-04-04 11:37 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Loners was so disappointing. In addition to the things people already mentioned, they also spent six issues on what felt like setup that never pays off. Did the writer mean for this to be an ongoing?

Also annoyed that they had time for a Dusk cameo (maybe... it was really unclear) that didn't go anywhere but couldn't be bothered to explain how Hornet got his armor back before Wolverine killed him. Hornet and Prodigy shouldn't even HAVE powers after the events of Slingers.

Date: 2017-04-04 04:02 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
I wouldn't blame Cebulski for not explaining the thing with Hornet. While I appreciate when a writer fixes another writer's mistakes, I don't think they should be obligated to go out of their way to do it.

Concerning Dusk, Cebulski said he had to abort what he had planed with her because she appeared in Ms Marvel (as one of Puppet Master's slaves). Which is a poor excuse, in an universe where Wolverine can be in 3 teams at the same time, and where the Wrecking Crew can fight Thor one week after having been arrested by Iron Man.
Edited Date: 2017-04-04 04:02 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-05 12:01 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
I agree that Cebulski was under no obligation to fix the mess Millar made by killing Hornet off panel ... right up until he made Ricochet grieving his best friend a plot point. Heck, up until this series verified that it was Eddie, I just assumed some random person got ahold of the original Hornet armor that the Prowler made for Spider-Man. That's way more simple than ignoring the end of the Slingers series.

That's a pretty weak excuse for Dusk too.

What's the excuse for Penance's story not going anywhere?

Date: 2017-04-04 02:16 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (Robin--Joy)
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Hmm, wonder if Robin's hanging out in the shadows here. I like the 'R' belt buckle-thingie used as a weapon. :)

Date: 2017-04-04 11:54 pm (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
I realize this book originated as a spin-off of Runaways, which largely seemed meant to deconstruct the idea of the teenage super-hero, but... ugh. Several of you are people who've saved the freaking universe or the Earth or an entire race of horse aliens. You may have taken some personal lumps, but that's a net positive gain.


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