laughing_tree: (Default)
[personal profile] laughing_tree posting in [community profile] scans_daily

'I didn’t really care for the TV series. Although the cruelty of keeping an animal under the sink and forcing it to eat your garbage really struck me, even at a young age. In a way, it’s the most subversive social critique offered by “The Flintstones,” and the major theme I’ve organized the comic around. How once we’ve closed the cupboard door so they’re out of sight, we don’t really care about what happens to the other living beings that make the ease of our existence possible.' -- Mark Russell

They paint "Fred" on Bowling Ball so that the Flintstones will think he's the new one.

Date: 2017-04-13 02:58 am (UTC)
doctor_spanky: (Default)
From: [personal profile] doctor_spanky
I love the thing with the hawk and the cigar

Date: 2017-04-13 08:50 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
Yeah, that was pretty boss.

Date: 2017-04-13 03:07 am (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
This book is one of the most pessimist kinda sad things I have seen in a while. At first I wrote it off as some kinda cynicism, but I don't think that rights. Its hopeful in its own way....its just kinda a sad and pathetic hope.

Feels bad man.

Date: 2017-04-13 07:16 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Weclome to sitcoms!

Date: 2017-04-13 08:50 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
Maybe it's based off the idea that things will get better, but things had to start somewhere.

Date: 2017-04-13 03:07 am (UTC)
walkingthroughforest: (Default)
From: [personal profile] walkingthroughforest
This comic has no right to be this good.

Date: 2017-04-13 05:30 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
I know! *Why* is it this good?

Date: 2017-04-13 12:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
I've noticed one common element in a lot of "behind the success" stories in comic books: someone somewhere sometime decided they had nothing to lose.

Date: 2017-04-13 05:29 pm (UTC)
byc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] byc
Yeah I really like it. Most of us really like satire as commentary on life.

Date: 2017-04-13 08:51 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
Has anyone pointed out the irony that in a civilization made of rocks, the sport that's actually played by throwing a big, round rock instead swaps it out for an animal here?

Date: 2017-04-13 11:42 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
It's something definitely change here. In the show I believe it Was a rock

Date: 2017-04-13 09:10 am (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
Sometimes I don't even think business men and conservative politicians worshipping a snake in a business suit even counts as parody. I wouldn't even be slightly surprised if that were true.

Date: 2017-04-13 12:07 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Didn't the animals say "it's a living" in the cartoon, earning they got paid?

Date: 2017-04-13 01:21 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
I'very always wondered how that would work.

Date: 2017-04-13 01:48 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Sure, and people who work in sweatshops get paid. It's a living!

Date: 2017-04-13 03:26 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: (Tony & Cap)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
They may have been treated poorly (though that they were compensated for their services in some way is more than most animals in the real world get), but I still think it's inaccurate how the writer is acting like he's pulling the curtain back and showing how the animals must have really been treated in the cartoon.

Date: 2017-04-13 11:28 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
They were clearly as smart as the human characters though, but they were still treated as objects and not living beings.

Date: 2017-04-14 12:57 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
He's not saying this is what really happened in the original cartoon, he's saying that it's something thematically resonant that struck him, and he's emphasizing it in his reboot of the series.

Take the record player bird, for example. You could hire someone to stand over your record player and hold the stylus in place, and you could pay them for it, but it would still be a dehumanizing (deanimalizing) job because you're treating them as an inanimate object. They could have a dinosaur live in their backyard and eat the grass, but instead they strap it to a lawnmower chassis and push it around so it can only eat grass where they steer it. And this is actually more labor for them, it would be so much easier to just let it roam free, but they do it because they can't conceive of the dinosaur as a living being with a volition of its own. It's just an appliance to them. It's just a piece of hardware.

Date: 2017-04-14 03:35 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: (X-Men)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
His comment about "the cruelty of keeping an animal under the sink and forcing it to eat your garbage really struck me, even at a young age" makes it sound like he's saying the animals were treated the same way in the cartoon.

And you can certainly say they were mistreated in the cartoon, and maybe compare it to child labor or how some undocumented migrant workers are treated, but I don't think it's comparable to the slavery and murder shown here.

Date: 2017-04-15 01:25 am (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
I don't know how you even think the comic and the original cartoon are supposed to be in the same continuity. Fred wasn't a veteran in the cartoon, they didn't go to church, etc. He's not saying he reproduced the cartoon exactly, and I don't know why you think he'd suggest that. He's saying he found the cartoon cruel, and so he made his reboot cruel in similar, but not identical ways.

I don't see why child labor and slavery are incompatible, and in fact the treatment of animals in the Flintstones is more dehumanizing than slavery. You want a slave to cut the grass, you order them to cut the grass. You don't tie them to a lawnmower and push them around while they clip at the grass with shears.

Date: 2017-04-15 02:54 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: (The Bride)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
I'm well aware it's not meant to be a literal adaptation of the cartoon and that it's in a different continuity, but the way he talks about it in the interviews makes it sound like he's saying that the animals were treated the same way.

And I made the comparison to child labor because some of the children were mistreated and exploited, and worked in poor conditions, but it was still a job they got paid for doing.

Again, the animals on the show repeatedly say "It's a living," so I disagree with saying they were treated worse than the slaves were.

Date: 2017-04-13 12:55 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I looked up the garbage pig on google and he's depicted as looking content, relaxing and eating the trash with a big grin. Certainly not being forced. Sorry it's not the hellish dystopia you remembered as a kid.

Date: 2017-04-13 01:30 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Well, no, that's not how such situations work.

If it doesn't know any better, that doesn't mean it's NOT slavery, just that it's been conditioned to be happy in it's work.

Date: 2017-04-13 02:01 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
A.) The writer describes it as "keeping an animal under the sink and forcing it to eat your garbage" when the cartoon depicts it as the following:

It's not being 'forced' to do anything.

B.) The concept of slavery doesn't apply to animals.

Date: 2017-04-13 02:09 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
1) It's cruel to make an animal live in a dark stone box under your sink where you prod it with a stick. Sure, it's happy to be fed, these are still terrible living conditions.

2) These are cartoon animals, which are varying degrees of sapient, many of them even capable of talking.

Date: 2017-04-13 02:28 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
1. The question is, is it living there 24/7? If we are going to be applying real-world logic the animal would probably be emaciated, covered in sores and lying in its own shit and piss if it was forced to live there.

2. Real animals are pretty intelligent but we still use them for tasks. You might as well argue that conditioning animals to be pets as opposed to living in the wild is a form of slavery. And they certainly don't have a say working as service animals or risking their life working for police or the military.

Date: 2017-04-13 02:43 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
I mean, yes, it is living there 24/7, that's the whole joke in the Flintstones, is that they treat animals as inanimate objects. They tie a fuckin' hedgehog to a stick and use it as a scrub brush or whatever, they make a bird perch on a a record player and jab its beak into the record instead of just using ... you know, a sharpened stick.

That's what Mark Russell is referring to, is that the animals in the Flintstones are often as smart as people, but they are not treated as people, or even as animals. They are put away in cupboards and expected to sit around immobile for long periods of time.

Date: 2017-04-13 02:42 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Again, conditioning is not informed consent.

And as most of the "domestic chore" animals in the Flintstones are clearly self aware and capable of abstract thought (to the point of verbalising snarky asides about their lot in life), yes, the concept of slavery would apply.

Date: 2017-04-13 03:07 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Would it not count as slavery if we used people that were mentally ill and not "self aware and capable of abstract thought" then?

Date: 2017-04-13 03:20 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
It would be slavery, because as humans we fundamentally treat humans as possessing those rights inalienably.

But that is seeking an exclusion of a part of humanity, not the inclusion of another sentient species.

Date: 2017-04-13 04:59 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: (The Bride)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
The fact that they repeatedly say "It's a living" makes me think it's more like a job they put up with than actual slavery.

Date: 2017-04-13 10:07 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] lego_joker
If it's not a hellish dystopia, you're clearly not looking hard enough. :P

Date: 2017-04-13 01:22 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
I feel like Brutus leaving him hurt Slate the most.
Edited Date: 2017-04-13 01:28 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-13 03:08 pm (UTC)
miramira: book stack (Default)
From: [personal profile] miramira
The vacuum cleaner should've instigated total revolution and thrown the humans out of the house.

Date: 2017-04-13 05:31 pm (UTC)
byc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] byc
So what happened to the new bowling ball? Or do they share the duty now?

I missing powergoat.

Date: 2017-04-14 01:22 am (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
I keep reading the scans of this on here, and flipping through the occasional issue in the comic shop... and this just feels so damn depressing.

I mean, I get that the original was literally no more complicated than "The Honeymooners in the Stone Age with visual puns," but this is one of those times where I feel like the creative staff is just.... I feel like they're thinking way too hard about something that was never meant to be thought about this hard.

But maybe that's part of the point. I can't say I once ever thought about how the animals on the Flintstones felt about being pressed into appliancehood. Maybe I should have been.

Date: 2017-04-14 02:32 am (UTC)
glprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] glprime
"Once you pray to a god of strength, you surrender all right to beg for mercy."

Edited Date: 2017-04-14 02:34 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-04-14 10:27 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Yeah, that was a great line.


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