Date: 2017-04-20 01:42 pm (UTC)
mesmiranda: (jump)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
I can't tell if this is the beginning of the backpedalling on "oh, Steve wasn't REALLY a Nazi" or what.

Date: 2017-04-20 03:24 pm (UTC)
mesmiranda: (top hat)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
Really? Because the founders were Nazis, and the inner circle were Nazis, and the slogan and the salute are a riff on "Heil Hitler", and...

Date: 2017-04-20 04:00 pm (UTC)
deepspaceartist: Kamen Rider Decade (Decade)
From: [personal profile] deepspaceartist
Not originally. All those were only added after the writers wanted to retcon them into being Captain America villains instead of Nick Fury and SHIELD villains. For their first bunch of years they were just standard spy thriller villains. It's original founder was just some random businessman named Arnold Brown. The Nazi stuff had just been retconned in and out ever since.

Date: 2017-04-20 04:43 pm (UTC)
mesmiranda: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mesmiranda
I looked it up on Wikipedia and you're correct, my apologies. Marvel has been associating them pretty heavily with Nazis for decades, though, longer than lots of comic book readers have been alive, and it doesn't seem fair to jettison that to save face over editorial decisions.

Date: 2017-04-20 05:05 pm (UTC)
deepspaceartist: Kamen Rider Decade (Decade)
From: [personal profile] deepspaceartist
I don't know if I'd call it jettisoning, though. It seems to me that Spencer is trying to set up Nazi Hydra and Ancient Cult Hydra as seperate entities, while maintaining both as being evil. So you've got the Red Skulls racist, fascist assholes vs. Hydra Steve's non-racist but still fascist assholes. Hydra Steve hasn't been shown to be a racist or a bigot, it's just that where Real Steve whould call out bigots and righteously punch them, Hydra Steve will instead manipulate them to his own ends then stab them in the back.

Date: 2017-04-21 01:13 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Marvel has been associating them pretty heavily with Nazis for decades, though, longer than lots of comic book readers have been alive, and it doesn't seem fair to jettison that to save face over editorial decisions.

Amen.

Also, "They're not Nazis, they're fascists!" is....not REALLY BETTER.

Date: 2017-04-21 05:59 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
It depended on the faction though, since there have been multiple Hydra groups with different leaders with different goals.

That being said, the best known version of Hydra right now is the one people saw in the films, which is the one where they were a Nazi science division.

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