Date: 2017-05-05 01:33 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Once Upon A Time, someone suggested on twitter / tumblr / whichever, that if ever someone at DC were to suggest a Barbara Gordon story and use the phrase "Killing Joke", then a trapdoor should be opened, plunging them into eternal darkness, never to be seen again.

The same should happen with Jean Grey and the Phoenix.

Because it's just damn tedious at this point.
Okay, yes, you might say, it is really the only thing Jean's remembered for, but... that might also be because nobody ever does anything else with her.
Just Phoenix Phoenix Phoenix Phoenix. Always and forever.
And even worse, it's done by people who never seem to have actually freaking read the Dark Phoenix Saga, but have looked at a Wikipedia summary for but a moment.


Also:
-"I'm Jean Grey"-
Then prove it. Act like Jean Grey.

Date: 2017-05-05 02:29 am (UTC)
bj_l: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bj_l
A self-righteous know-all with a superiority complex masked by feigned politeness?

Date: 2017-05-05 03:34 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
I miss Grant Morison's take on Jean. He understood her. She she'd the completely polite thing, and had her embrace her power. He acknowledged that Jean Grey is Phoenix, and The Phoenix is Jean Grey. She was in complete control of her power, and even though he killed her (in the stupidest way possible, girl burned up in the sun and came back but a STROKE kills her?) he left the door open for her return, hell even telegraphed how it could happen... but NOT everyone else, cherry picked stuff they liked and forgot that Jean Grey brings balance to the Phoenix Force, and that's what it needed, Balance. with it's PROPER host....

Date: 2017-05-05 03:11 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
In this, doesn't she randomly run into the Wrecking Crew in Japan? (Looks it up... yup).

They really need to bring back other villain teams to act as jobbers; the Wrecking Crew need a break to regain some of their cred. Might I suggest the Death-Throws? Or maybe a new iteration of the Ani-Men?

Date: 2017-05-05 09:52 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Like.... we know Japanese super characters, for one.

Maybe if they were in a smaller Japanese city...

Date: 2017-05-05 04:16 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Maybe if a team of Marvel's Japan-based superheroes had gotten a highly successful animated film or something...

Date: 2017-05-05 07:35 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Yea, though I doubt they'll likely appear in their old form again since they do differ so much from the movie version.


Still, Sunfire's a big name regardless. It's weird to expect no heroes.

Date: 2017-05-05 03:50 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Man, I haven't thought of the Death Throws in years. I loved those guys.

The Enforcers was always a neat group, and I always thought the U-Foes were cool.

Date: 2017-05-05 04:51 am (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
Yeah... and they occupy such specific power level slots, too. The Enforcers are awesome if you're a street-level vigilante or inexperienced, because c'mon, there's a strong guy, a rope guy, and a karate guy. And hopefully the dead ones got over being dead courtesy of Clone Conspiracy.

And the U-Foes are awesome because they're an ersatz Fantastic Four but with cool power-sets.

I'd love to see someone maybe bring back some of those early "random assortment" villain teams, like the Emissaries of Evil.

Date: 2017-05-05 04:17 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Enforcers - Street level, or minor physical powers

The Wrecking Crew - Basic low key powers, super strength, invulnerability, the standard "flying brick" set.

Absorbing Man - Energy manipulators, since he can normally absorb the properties of the energies used.

U-Foes - Powered teams, wannabe cosmic types.

DC usually uses the Female Furies for pretty much all of the above.

Date: 2017-05-05 03:35 am (UTC)
byc: (Default)
From: [personal profile] byc
That hair is terrible.

Date: 2017-05-05 04:07 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
Well the next issue is supposed to guest star Hope and Rachel Summers as well.
Giving Jean a (terrible) haircut could help differentiate her from those other redheads.

Plus maybe she hoped that the Phoenix wouldn't recognize her

Date: 2017-05-07 04:24 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
That's funny, because I thought she looked like Hope in this.

Glad that they're at least acknowledging Hope. Hope they remember that Hope isn't genetically Jean's granddaughter.

Date: 2017-05-05 05:18 am (UTC)
glprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] glprime
That hair is terrible.

Point.

Maybe she hoped that the Phoenix wouldn't recognize her...

aaaand Point.

Date: 2017-05-05 10:59 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Is it? She's what, 15 or 16 years old? Looks like a fairly standard young girls haircut to me.

Date: 2017-05-05 03:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
it's not cut she's ever had though and not one that looks good on her

Date: 2017-05-05 04:11 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Well, she's alive in a different time, so styles have changed, and she's wanting to be someone other than her other selves have been, so going for a different image would be a start.

Date: 2017-05-05 07:04 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
I thought she was older. Wasn't she going to college just before she got pulled onto an X-team?

Date: 2017-05-05 08:02 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
First rule of teenagers in comics their ages will vary depending on the writer. Jubilee is a perfect poster child for this or you could use Miles who went form being early to mid teens in the ultimate universe to being said to be eighteen so they could ship tease him with Gwen.

Date: 2017-05-05 08:32 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Well, I don't have a problem with characters getting older in later comics. It's the reverse that's problematic, time travel or Mutant Alpha notwithstanding. :)

Date: 2017-05-05 10:07 pm (UTC)
obsidianwolf: 3 of 3 Icons I never change (Default)
From: [personal profile] obsidianwolf
Sadly that also happens frequently using Jubilee as an example she started out at 15/16 and then aged at least one or two years before getting dropped to 13 at the start of Generation X. Then over the course of that title she made it all the way to eighteen with the other kids only to be 15/16 again when she got a solo title. At least now as a vampire they have an excuse for her being an eternal teenager.

Some Characters are never going to be allowed to grow up unfortunately.

Date: 2017-05-05 07:06 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Holy gawd, yes.

Date: 2017-05-05 07:48 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] gnarll
As long as it retcons or ignores the Whole Phoenix thing from AvX, I am all for it.

Date: 2017-05-05 10:53 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
"I AM FIRE, I AM LIFE INCARNATE... I AM PHOENIX!

But not... y'know, THAT Phoenix, that was another one, no idea where THAT one came from, nothing to do with me squire I was somewhere else that whole time... look I have photos of me in the Andromeda Galaxy while that whole thing was going on, check out the timestamp!"

Date: 2017-05-06 01:38 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
"Behold, this newspaper of authenticity, in clear view of the camera, which definitely proves this was the time I claim it was!"

Date: 2017-05-05 01:55 pm (UTC)
thenicochan: {...} from Hanna is Not a Boy's Name (90s Gambit chillin)
From: [personal profile] thenicochan
This is the first time Jean's been given her own book, right? While I still really miss OG!Jean, I've enjoyed this version too. I'll definitely have to pick this up, if only because Jean is still my favorite Marvel character-- even with the shilling (good and bad) she's gotten over the years.

Date: 2017-05-05 04:24 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
I wonder if Kurt Busiek had any idea of the can of worms he would open with his "the Phoenix was really a cosmic entity that copied Jean Grey's form and memories."

There are some unpublished pages from FANTASTIC FOUR #286 that have Phoenix Force as more evil, with Jean kind of copying herself into the Phoenix.

http://art.cafimg.com/images/Category_74/subcat_25667/ff286_26alt.jpg

Date: 2017-05-07 04:29 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] philippos42
Wasn't that John Byrne's idea? Did Busiek have some input in that?

Date: 2017-05-07 05:15 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Some details from Comic Book Urban Legends. Seems the "Jean was still at the bottom of Jamaica Bay" was Busiek's idea.

http://www.cbr.com/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-29/

Shortly before the publication of Uncanny X-Men #137, future freelance writer Kurt Busiek, then still a college student, heard about the upcoming events through the fan grapevine, as did fellow future comics pros Carol Kalish (who would go on to head up Marvel’s Direct Sales Department for years) and Richard Howell (artist of the Vision and The Scarlet Witch 12-issue maxi-series, among others). The three of them also heard that Jim Shooter had declared that Jean Grey could not be revived unless it was done in such a way as to render her guiltless of Dark Phoenix’s crimes. Taking this as a creative challenge, all three then-fans decided to come up with their own resurrection scenario. Busiek’s involved the discovery that Jean Grey was still on the bottom of Jamaica Bay in suspended animation, and the Phoenix entity had used her body and mind as a lens, creating an immensely powerful duplicate of Jean, but a duplicate which grew more corrupted and distorted the longer it remained separate from the true Jean.


Later on,

in 1983, after beginning a career as a freelance writer the previous year, Kurt Busiek attended a comics convention in Ithaca, New York, staying at the home of Marvel writer Roger Stern. In conversation, both writers’ longtime interest in the X-Men came up, and Stern expressed regret that there was no way to bring Jean back, not while satisfying Shooter’s edict. Busiek told Stern his idea, not expecting it to amount to more than idle conversation. Later, Stern told the idea to John Byrne, then writer/artist of Fantastic Four.

In 1985, Jim Shooter greenlighted a new series that would reunite the original X-Men into a new team called “X-Factor,” to be written by longtime freelancer Bob Layton. Hearing of this, Byrne called Layton and suggested Busiek’s idea as a means of raising Jean Grey from the dead while satisfying Jim Shooter’s demands for total absolution for Jean.


Date: 2017-05-07 04:01 pm (UTC)
majingojira: (Kyon Sad)
From: [personal profile] majingojira
Every time Dennis Hopeless starts a series with female characters prominent, he renders them largely incompetent and tweaks their powers slightly that ends up undermining or even depowering them directly just so they can bumble around until a male character enters to fill in for them.

Why this has gone largely unnoticed is beyond me, but I swear to god if he does yet another romance that reeks of self-insertion as he did in Spider-Woman and Avengers Undercover, I will . . . probably just rant about it on the internet, like I always do.

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