[personal profile] history79 posting in [community profile] scans_daily

CBS NEWS: This comic's publication in 1994 seems like a turning point in the industry. Do you sense how it influenced the comics world since?

GARTH ENNIS: At the time, there was a real sense of treading on uncharted ground. Certainly no one else was doing anything like it in comics, so there was a good deal of groping in the dark. Comics up to that point, until the mid-80s, had effectively been juvenalia, so that was the point of Vertigo, to be able to do material like that in mainstream comics. As the influence it's had since, that's harder for me to say. I feel that the material that inspired Vertigo back then has been to an extent cordoned off and forgotten -- perhaps not forgotten, but it's been put on its reservation.

Alan Moore's work on "Watchmen" and "Miracleman" -- that should have written the end of the superhero. But they've essentially been shoved off to the side and superheroes have continued like a juggernaut. I don't really read a lot of comic books and it's because of that domination of the superhero. If I was to talk about "Preacher"'s influence, I can kind of see that in "Y: The Last Man" by Brian Vaughn. Beyond that, I would find it hard to trace "Preacher"'s exact influence.

14.66 pages of 44

Date: 2017-06-13 11:14 pm (UTC)
mrosa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrosa
Me reading that bit of interview: "Christ, what a douchebag!"

Me after reading the scans: "Why don't we have awesome comics like Preacher anymore?"

I haven't read it in a good while, and I'd forgotten how good Ennis' humor and dialogue are. In this series at least, he was a master at characterization.

And Steve Dillon's artwork was just as good.

Date: 2017-06-14 02:21 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
It's not like Ennis has written anything like this for a good while.

Though I still think he doesn't know what he's talking about in the interview. A ton of comics tried to do this kind of thing, most just, y'know, weren't very good, and he obviously doesn't know much about the state of superheroes.

Date: 2017-06-14 12:35 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Ennis is one to talk about comics being juvenile.

Date: 2017-06-14 09:03 am (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
There are mature comics, and there are "mature" comics…

Date: 2017-06-14 10:53 am (UTC)
informationgeek: (djpon3)
From: [personal profile] informationgeek
Then there's Saga that tries being both to very mixed results.

Date: 2017-06-14 12:58 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Alan Moore's work on "Watchmen" and "Miracleman" -- that should have written the end of the superhero.

Why is that? Despite Alan Moore's talent, I'm not sure what is so special about two series that are mostly about how much he hates the Thatcher administration. How do we get "Thatcher administration is bad, therefore superheroes are bad" anyway?

I get Ennis doesn't like superheroes, or at least how they dominate the comic book medium, and I can understand that. It's is "Superheroes are bad and you should feel bad" message that bugs me.

Date: 2017-06-14 02:01 am (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
I get the feeling that Ennis might be the type who just doesn't get that a work of fiction can be about something different from what it appears to be about on the surface. That Watchmen and Miracle Man were partially commentaries on the politics of the time doesn't register because he only sees the superheroes.

This would also be why when he wants to make a point or theme in his work, he hammers the sucker in as obviously as he can instead of letting things play out under the genre veneer.

Date: 2017-06-14 02:23 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
A number of people get the impression those two are about 'Superheroes suck,' but they really aren't. Or that they're a high-point and there's nothing left to say- again, not really.

Heck, one of the reasons superheroes continues on is it adapts and absorbs messages, it's a flexible tool.

Date: 2017-06-14 03:43 am (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
Some people felt that Moore's deconstructions of the superhero genre should have been the final word, that he had wrapped the concepts up with a bow and they were complete, finished. It was said in some comics circles in the '80s that Alan Moore killed the superhero genre (with Watchmen), and Frank Miller dug the grave (with Dark Knight Returns).

I prefer the Kurt Busiek school of thought: okay, it's been taken apart and we can see how it works and which parts don't anymore. So now let's build it up again, even better since we're using what we learned.

Date: 2017-06-14 12:52 pm (UTC)
mrosa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrosa
Moore himself, in a TV documentary about comics, said himself that Watchmen should have ended superhero comics. I'm not sure how serious he was, since he's returned to comics so often since that landmark book.

Date: 2017-06-15 03:12 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] palgrave_goldenrod
Well, they're as much about deconstructing the superhero as about the Thatcher administration. It can be two things.

But yeah, the whole "Watchmen should have killed the superhero dead" stuff is misguided at best. Superheroes are no different than any other type of fiction; they can be used for any purpose that the author wants, they can be taken apart and put back together as needed.

Date: 2017-06-14 01:48 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
Apart from the possibility of reconstructing the superhero genre after its deconstruction (see Tom Strong, DC: The New Frontier), there's the simple fact that there are still enough people willing to buy superhero comics that there's money to be made in publishing them. So they're not going to go away just because some people think the genre is over, any more than music labels are going to stop issuing rock albums because some people think rock is dead, or stagnant, or whatever.
Edited Date: 2017-06-14 01:48 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-14 03:01 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (superman--batman (modern heroes--color))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Superheroes are modern mythology, and mythology always reinvents itself to be able to speak to people. If superheroes had nothing more to say, then Wonder Woman would not have connected with so many people lately.


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