mastermahan: (Default)
[personal profile] mastermahan posting in [community profile] scans_daily


Since Foolkiller ended with the implication Frank Castle was about to shoot The Hood, and the general consensus was "good riddance", I thought I'd take us all back to a time before Parker Robbins was a lame magic Kingpin wannabe, with the MAX series that first introduced him, written by a pre-Runaways and Y: The Last Man Brian K. Vaughn and drawn by Kyle Hotz.

Trigger warning for racism and sexist language.

We open with Parker Robbins visiting his mother in a gray, run-down hospice. He tells her he's been accepted to NYU's pre-med program (a lie). She doesn't recognize him.

Later, he meets up with his cousin John at a bar to plan a robbery, only for Parker to get distracted fanboying over Eletro.





Parker stops in to see his blond Russian mistress before heading home to see Sara, his very pregnant girlfriend.




Date: 2017-06-24 09:14 am (UTC)
shakalooloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shakalooloo
And that HYDRA recruiter's fate really should have happened en masse at the start of this whole Secret Empire affair.

Date: 2017-06-24 09:19 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Yeah, instead we had civilians just willingly join Hydra. Which is rather cynical even by my standards.

Date: 2017-06-24 11:59 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Yeahhh, that was about why I fell off the "Secret Empire" bandwagon, or just resolved to enjoy parts of it selectively. Forgive the digression here...

As usual, Marvel doesn't just want to have its cake and eat it too, it wants to take ALL the cakes, mash them together into one GIANT cake, and then have and eat THAT. Mutants aren't just one minority, they're all the minorities ever, except when they're not. Spider-Man is a lovable underdog who has a (1) New York apartment and supermodel wife (2) Lockheed-Martin-rivaling startup. Hydra is Nazis and Stalinists and Trumpists and also its own unique brand, whom Marvel's America will greet with an "I, for one, welcome our new fascist overlords" until this event's over, at which point America will renounce Hydra thoroughly.

I really should've paid more attention when the series introduced "Captain America's new Avengers." There's literally no good reason for any superhero to join Hydra, and the idea of Steve taking most of them off the board through sheer strategy is solid enough, but because the only intracompany event Marvel seems to know how to produce these days is Civil War, we have characters like Thor and Frank Castle-- Frank Castle, the first-person-shooter of superheroes!-- acting like they're your distant relatives you see once a year whom you just kind of assumed were more politically enlightened. Assuming Hydra is Trump. Which it sort of is, but also really, really isn't.

To be fair...

Date: 2017-06-24 02:08 pm (UTC)
deh_tommy: (Default)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
(a)When Steve Rogers, perhaps the ultimate moral bastion of good in the MARVEL Universe, is endorsing HYDRA, I think people might be more inclined to take an interest in what hems doing (especially for people who really admire him, like Deadpool). He's probably still seen as right because, no matter how questionable his methods may seem, he can apparently wield Mjolnir which means he must be still good enough to be worthy, which somewhat overrules the arguments of his objectors

(b)HYDRA, as shown in Steve Rogers: Captain America, have mainly been preying on and inducting the cynical, misfortunate and dispossessed into their ranks (like Larry in U.S.Avengers, or that cafeteria man in Secret Empire #4).

(c)A large amount of the people are kept placated through mind altering means (like chemicals in the water, Doctor Faustus' widespread mental control, nanobots (like with Red Hulk and Vision (I think)), or, even in extreme cases, demonic possession).

(d)Those that are reluctantly part of HYDRA support them out of fear for their lives, their loved ones, or both (so far, Thor is implied to be working for HYDRA because of whatever happened to Jane Foster).

Re: To be fair...

Date: 2017-06-24 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
You have points, though I think writers are leaning on (a) a little hard. It works with, say, Deadpool, because Wade's been presented well as a character who really wants to do right but needs someone to tell him what that is, and because Steve took the time to talk him into some morally questionable things, and because Wade has started to find his own conscience now that Steve's distracted. But there's a long line of turned heroes after Wade by now, with progressively sketchier rationales or little notes that say "THEIR PARTICIPATION IS A MYSTERY WE WILL ADDRESS LATER."

(I know it was a big moral litmus test in the second Avengers movie, but considering how Mjolnir glitched out on Thor Originalson just because he's having a crisis of faith in the whole idea of godhood, but NOT because he's developed a porn addiction or whatever, I'm beginning to think "worthiness" has been redefined as "belief in yourself and the rightness of your cause," and if so, Wilson Fisk will be using it as a paperweight any day now.)

Also, these explanations don't seem to be "on the ground" very much. Pick up most comics related to the event and it seems more like Steve already succeeded in his stated goal of rewriting reality so that Hydra's been running America for decades instead of days.

Date: 2017-06-26 07:22 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
"New York apartment and supermodel wife"

Is... Is having an apartment in New York a sign of being upper class? It's a big city. And I'm sorry, but screw that "he can't be an underdog, his wife is a supermodel" shit forever and everywhere. 1. She's a not a supermodel, just a model. Contrary to popular belief, that career is not a gurantee of stable income or lack of personal problems. 2. She's mostly been a struggling actress anyway. 3. When you think about it, isn't it LESS of a fantasy for her to be a model? Because no matter who's Peter's (or any superhero's really) love interest is, they are going to be supermodel atractive. So, what's more of a wish-fulfillment: Being married to a supermodel (and dealing with all the harships of it, like stalkers) or a say, smart nerd just like him who might as well be a supermodel?

Date: 2017-06-28 12:26 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
You're right that classic MJ's fame and success levels varied widely: she could go from rags to riches back to rags again back to riches again. But here's the bottom line on that one: Peter just isn't sellable as a "lovable rock-bottom loser" if he's got a woman like Mary Jane to come home to, for reasons that go well beyond the physical.

(Yeah, I am saying Joe Quesada had a point all those years ago. "One More Day" may have been one of the most ridiculous acts of self-destruction in superhero comics, but that's an execution issue.)

There are interesting stories to tell about such a career, and Spider-Man did tell a few of them (though not all that well, to be honest). At its best, Mary Jane's life was artfully compared to Peter's: both of them living this mix of glamor and desperation. That's a solid premise. What's not so solid is when Marvel tries to do that but also write Peter as if essentially nothing's changed since high school. All the cakes.

Your point three is clever and funny, but I think the answer to "all superhero love interests look like supermodels" isn't "let's make them all actual supermodels" but "DRAW BETTER." Really, the biggest issue with Peter and Mary Jane's marriage is that so much of it took place in the Nineties, which was a pretty low point all around for the depiction of women in the superhero genre. At least MJ stayed off the Women in Refrigerators list.

Date: 2017-08-12 12:02 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
I apologize, somehow I didn't notice you responded until now.

But Peter's never been "rock-bottom loser" and he shouldn't be. He was an underdog.

No, it wasn't. If you want to break up MJ and Peter, there are a lot better ways to do it than that story, but just breaking them up period is inherently bad, harmful idea and impossible without some logical holes.

Okay, I get what you mean-that Marvel wants to reduce the character and MJ is in the way of that. That is without question. But you seem to believe that it's maybe a good thing?

True-but that just goes to show that the problem is NOT with the marriage itself. And even back then, vast majority of the time she was written respectfully and so was her relationship with Peter.

Date: 2017-08-13 12:54 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
I don't really feel strongly that Peter Parker should be single or should be married. A long-running comic book character's status quo is fluid, because change creates interest. (For simplicity's sake, let's leave other media like movies out of this.) I accept this as part of the deal. There are only a few elements that I consider fundamental to a character like Peter Parker, and marital status isn't one of them.

But if you are going to change his status, you've got to think through what that means and be consistent in your approach. And by the time "One More Day" happened, I was honestly sick of seeing Marvel try and mostly fail with it.

If there's not a problem with one of those fundamental elements, I'd rather see writers and artists working on a version of the character they seem to believe in than not.

Date: 2017-08-13 07:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Incidentally, you're dead right that "underdog" is a better term, and you're CERTAINLY right that there had to be a better way to make him single again than to have him literally sell his marriage to the devil to save an elderly relative he's already seen die like three times. (At least when Wally West did that, it was to save millions of innocent lives.)

Date: 2017-06-24 01:12 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Doesn't Hydra have significant military force? I can see people not stomping recruiter heads for their own safety, at least.

Plus there's Faustus's hypnotism thingy...

Date: 2017-06-25 05:37 pm (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
I'm reading World War Tank Girl, where the prevailing attitude is "Let's fucking kill these Nazi cunts."

It's a marked contrast to Secret Empire

Date: 2017-06-24 09:18 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Granted, after Foolkiller ended, Hood showed up in Infamous Iron man alive.

Date: 2017-06-24 11:27 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Yeah, though Infamous is a Bendis book, so it's not surprising.

Date: 2017-06-24 01:05 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Surprising that a fairly major villain turned out not to be killed off-screen?

Date: 2017-06-24 07:03 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
"Fairly major"? The Hood is a c-lister at best and Black Cat has taken his shtick, so he's not even unique now.

Besides, like mastermahan, they could have killed off Robbins on panel and it wouldn't have mattered. Like how Bendis brought back Doc Samson and we've yet to find put how he's alive again.

Date: 2017-06-24 07:07 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
He was a major Avengers villain for a few years and a member of Osborn's cabal when Norman was running everything.. Him having an ambiguous fate in a title no one read is hardly an indicator that he was supposed to be dead.

Date: 2017-06-28 12:27 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
" Was a Major villain" being the key word here.

Date: 2017-06-28 12:48 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
So he's big enough that no one expected him to be killed off-screen in a title no one read.

Date: 2017-06-24 06:57 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Exactly, it's certainly not the first time he has brought back a dead character without explanation.

Date: 2017-06-24 07:04 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Frank poisoned a bar full of supervillains and then blew it up. None of them died. He's a chump unless you're Stilt-man or an Ennis OC. Him not being able to kill the Hood is in character for him.
Edited Date: 2017-06-24 07:16 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-24 10:13 am (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I like they're keeping up the running joke that Hydra offers dental care.

Date: 2017-06-24 07:25 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
You need a good dental plan when you get punched in the face as often as Red Skull or Richard Spencer

Date: 2017-06-25 02:08 am (UTC)
dustbunny105: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dustbunny105
When did that become a running gag? It used to be AIM that offered dental.

Date: 2017-06-24 10:45 am (UTC)
cainofdreaming: b/w (Default)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
Yeah, I still think that the worst thing that ever happened to this character was that Bendis liked the mini. Clear opposite Midas touch scenario.

Date: 2017-06-24 11:26 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
The Jeff Parker mini was really good too though.

Date: 2017-06-24 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Heh, yeah. I feel the same way about the Hood as I do the Sentry; the original mini is good and I liked the Parker mini but all the other stuff (especially Bendis' Avengers) with him in it is terrible.

Date: 2017-06-24 11:39 am (UTC)
leoboiko: (fear)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I liked The Hood for a while. It's the trope of the small-time crook who stumbles into power and quickly grows into it, but inevitably ends up biting more than he can chew. It almost works well in a Marvel context. The problem is, it needed an ending, and Marvel doesn't do those. At some point he had to meet someone like Punisher, Fisk, or end his usefulness to Dormammu, and then he'd be gone for good. Then it would have been a good story. It even had a builtin hook to continue the theme if they wanted: a way to pass the mantle, literally. You want to tell more Hood stories, make new characters tempted by the literal cursed Hood.

But no, this is Marvel, nothing ever changes, no one ever dies for real, and now Parker will hover around forever, inexplicably.

Date: 2017-06-24 12:01 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
Exactly. Even if he does die now and pass the hood on, the window of opportunity for it to mean much has passed.

Date: 2017-06-24 11:32 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
By the way, John calls that Hydra agents a "fucking Nazi". Guess Marvel forgot that even characters in universe thought Hydra were Nazis.

Date: 2017-06-24 01:13 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Huh, I like this Hood at lot more. He stomps Nazis!

Date: 2017-06-25 06:40 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Quite. Bendis's Hood has 'just go away,' type dislike from me.

Date: 2017-06-24 02:12 pm (UTC)
simiansyndicate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] simiansyndicate
Marvel Comics 2002: HYDRA IS FUCKING NAZIS

Marvel Comics 2017: Give it a chance, I think you'll see that Hydra is something completely different---

Marvel Television 2017: NO MAN, HYDRA IS FUCKING NAZIS

Date: 2017-06-24 06:55 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Pretty much.

With panels like this, i don't see why Marvel is surprised with people saying Hydra are Nazis, they did it themselves for years!

Date: 2017-06-25 03:29 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Marvel had various "World dominiation groups where all the goons dress alike." There was A.I.M., only they wanted to rule the world with SCIENCE!

There was the Secret Empire and T.H.E.M.

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