superboyprime: (Sun)
[personal profile] superboyprime posting in [community profile] scans_daily

"A year or so ago Dan Didio asked me to do a small project in which I had absolutely no interest. In fact, I was actually resistant to doing it, even tho it would have taken, at most, a couple of hours of my time. He did his best to cajole me into doing the thing, and finally I said 'Okay, I'll do it -- but my price is GENERATIONS 4.' He was amenable to this, saying that sales on 1, 2 and 3 had been good enough to justify 4. He said he would set the wheels turning and get back to me. When he did so, it was to inform me that Paul Levitz had said no, as he felt the 'ElseWorld' concept had been over-used and was tapped out. I reminded everyone that GENERATIONS was an 'imaginary story', not an ElseWorld, but Levitz was firm, and that was the end of that." - John Byrne

Date: 2017-08-05 11:41 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
Of course it's Lex Luthor's fault everything fell apart. Some things are just eternal, even in imaginary stories :)

I have to say, I quite like Clarks reaction to wearing the S here. He's had a long and honoured career as a hero, and he knows his grandfather wouldn't exactly have a problem with him wearing it, but the respect he holds for it is still great to see.

Date: 2017-08-06 02:26 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
I thought that Lex was really Humanite? So did the OG Lex want revenge, too?

Date: 2017-08-05 12:53 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
"A year or so ago Dan Didio asked me to do a small project in which I had absolutely no interest. In fact, I was actually resistant to doing it, even tho it would have taken, at most, a couple of hours of my time. He did his best to cajole me into doing the thing, and finally I said 'Okay, I'll do this two-hour job -- but my 'price' is that you give me another whole miniseries, which is kind of like getting hired full-time just for staying late one night at a summer internship after bitching about it, but whatever. DiDio was happy to do another GENERATIONS book because the GENERATIONS books had sold and not for any other reason, but Levitz said it was time to close out the Elseworlds line because Elseworlds in general was on the decline. I reminded everyone of my original distinction between Elseworlds and 'imaginary stories,' which really only mattered to me and my most devoted fans at that point since ELSEWORLDS had been on all the covers, but this somehow failed to convince anyone."

This series was fun, but I always have a problem with works that rely too heavily on the whole "iconic" argument. As in DC ONE MILLION, I have to wonder if it really reflects well on humanity that they can't think of any heroes better or more suited to their own eras than the great-great-grandnephew of some guy from the 1940s, or just that guy from the 1940s who's somehow still hanging around. It's like if today's music charts were dominated by Elvis impersonators or the actual Elvis.
Edited Date: 2017-08-05 12:58 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-05 03:36 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
Yeah, I greatly dislike stories which turn DC's characters into creepy dynastic in-groups. It always particularly annoys me to see it with Batman (as seen here, the conclusion of TDK: The Master Race, Scott Snyder's clone Batman future) because thematically so much of Batman is about him recruiting people and training them to do good themselves. To have Bruce Wayne just stick around as a quasi-immortal or having only his blood offspring be worthy of the mantle rather than anyone else being able to carry on his legacy flies in the face of that.

It's a little more understandable with Superman, though no less creepy, and frankly I'd much rather have stories about characters inspired by the seemingly unattainable legacy of Superman, like Steel, than Superman's shitty great grandkids.
Edited Date: 2017-08-05 03:37 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-06 04:13 am (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Alan Moore's "Twilight of the Superheroes" turned DC characters into creepy dynastic in-groups. It might be for the best it was never published, if the part where "The Question investigates a BDSM-murdered dwarf, and the victim is actually Billy Batson and Captain Marvel is really the Martian Manhunter" was part of the story.

Date: 2017-08-06 11:20 am (UTC)
trooper924: (Default)
From: [personal profile] trooper924
Let's not forget it also had Captain Marvel marry and have children with his own sister. Eeuggh.

Date: 2017-08-06 10:36 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
Twilight of the Superheroes is fun in that its a book which I find utterly fascinating but which I'm incredibly glad never got made. Because some of the ideas are really cool, but it's also so visibly Alan Moore still writing as a guy who's trying very hard to prove that superhero comics can be for grownups.

Date: 2017-08-05 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
we still make stories about Hercules and Sherlock Holmes, so i'm not sure how good an argument you've got

Date: 2017-08-06 11:35 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] tcampbell1000
We do! And yet, Hercules is not given star billing as the Greatest Marvel Hero Ever, and the various incarnations of Sherlock Holmes are neither founders of a dynasty nor immortals. I'm pretty much okay with a "softer" version of this idea where the Super- and Bat-legacies exist in some form but don't just consistently dominate the scene through decades and centuries, just as we do in fact still HAVE Elvis impersonators.

The real reasons Superman and Batman comics have remained prominent from the late 1930s to now-- aside from DC suing Fawcett out of existence and the Adam West show saving Batman from cancellation-- are branding and barriers to entry, but nobody wants to reflect on that too much when they sit down to enjoy a Superman or Batman story. Nothing wrong with not dwelling on it, but sometimes we twist ourselves in uncomfortable knots to deny it.
Edited Date: 2017-08-06 11:37 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-05 10:21 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
It is sort of oddly prescient that DC's future consists largely of legacy heroes, though, with only the very rare glimpse of a non-legacy scattered in there.

Date: 2017-08-05 03:00 pm (UTC)
randyripoff: (Empress)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
Personally, I don't think that ELSEWORLDS will ever be played out. In fact, I wish they'd use it more.

Date: 2017-08-05 05:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Does anyone know the project Byrne's referring to? Because, without further input, I'm going to have to assume it was helping Didio move into a new apartment.

Date: 2017-08-05 11:12 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
But it would be a new apartment, and would remove any reference to any apartment that DiDio has ever lived in before. This would be the iconic apartment.

Date: 2017-08-05 05:16 pm (UTC)
ozaline: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
"We cleaned her up like you ordered, sir, and well inspite of the fact that I'm wearing pants and a shirt with a high neckline we felt like we had one moment to make a visual impact here, like it was the last shot of a show or panel of a comic or something so we forced her to wear clothes she hates, there was simply no other way of conveying the information she was a woman."

Date: 2017-08-05 10:41 pm (UTC)
razsolo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] razsolo
This is one of those weird quirks of comic books, because she's actually drawn as being more masculine before her "She's All That" moment where her whole body/face shape change...and because it's a purely visual medium we're not supposed to think about things like how her voice would sound or why Batman didn't pick up on it when he was fighting her in close quarters.

You could do a gender switch reveal on film/tv but you can't really be as lazy about it as comics are when they do it (see also petite cinched waist Lightning Lass playing buff athletic Lightning Lad)

Date: 2017-08-06 02:28 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
Well then, I hope Byrne didn't do that project. I'd be pissed if he did it on good faith that he'd get to do Gen 4 and they reneged. And if so, screw Paul Levitz.

Actually, screw him anyway, since I'd have liked to see this continue.

Date: 2017-08-06 02:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
DC - Sorry, JB. We're done with Elseworlds.

Mark Millar - What if [incomprehensible] Superman en tha Soviet Union and [incomprehensible] but [incomprehensible] Lex Luther [incomprehensible] America?



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