laughing_tree: (Seaworth)
[personal profile] laughing_tree posting in [community profile] scans_daily

Post a joke from this year's comic, it's a massive offense. Show one from the 80s? All in good fun. Reagan as snake-man, clearly a joke. Mockingbird in a t-shirt that says feminist, comics are ruined. -- Nick Spencer

"...or do I? After all -- I have to get out of here, don't I? I have to be there at the capitol. According to the vision -- which means I did guess it right."

Date: 2017-08-10 09:44 am (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
By and large, this is event comics done right. It's been one hell of a rollercoaster.

But regarding Widow, let's start the betting pool on her return:

A. Dead for many years then, boom, resurrection by some nostalgic writer who's a kid now!
B. Dead for a few years then, boom, resurrection!
C. Dead for about a year then, boom, resurrection in time for Infinity War synergy!
D. Back by the end of the storyline.
E. She's not really dead.

Place yer bets!
Edited Date: 2017-08-10 09:47 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-10 09:55 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
Sorrentino is not very good at drawing action sequences, but Cap's face when Spider-Man breaks his shield... One of the moments of the year.

Rest in pieces, Black WIdow. I wish that would mean she gets replaced by Red Widow after Secret Empire. But since she's (1) an iconic old character who (2) is in movies and (3) died in an event involving a cosmic cube, I won't hold my breath.

Date: 2017-08-10 09:56 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] onsokumaru
My money is on D.

From the most likely to less likely, I'd say: D, B, C, A, E.
Edited Date: 2017-08-10 09:57 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-10 10:48 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
E, her jaw's shattered and she's got badly fractured vertebra, but that's not necessarily fatal especially in comics.

Date: 2017-08-10 11:36 am (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
The older I get the weirder and weirder the whole "no killing/killers are dirty" thing is to me.

This isn't some mugger, its not him engaging in random super heroics. That man is a literal fascist dictator who took over the country in am armed coup. How is there any moral problem with killing him in armed combat at all? How is letting him live "heroic" or noble?

Seems like a good event, but that moment was weird and dissonant to me.

Date: 2017-08-10 12:01 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Yes, it is weird. It is really weird with Sane! Captain America. It such a degree there was a question about whether he killed anyone during World War II.

This turned around. "Captain America killed Nazis during World War II" became an excuse for everything.

Date: 2017-08-10 12:31 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Well "Snake Reagan" is considered to be one of the most embarrassing moments in CA history so I really don't know if that's the standard you want to be holding yourself up against, Nick.

Date: 2017-08-10 12:53 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
To be fair, Miles is a kid.

Date: 2017-08-10 12:58 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
When is her next movie out? She'll be back for that, so C I guess.

Date: 2017-08-10 01:17 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The fact that people these days are more likely to say that they find something is offensive doesn't mean that it WASN'T offensive, or that they wouldn't have done in the past, it's just that that there wasn't as easy a means of expressing that the way there is now and, perhaps, more of an expectation to just two the line.

Date: 2017-08-10 01:21 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
But why is he surprised? It can't the Adamantium/Vibranium one, because no Spider-person could ever break that, so it's just a metal shield, which which case, given the sort of people he fights, it shattering should be a fairly regular occurence.

Date: 2017-08-10 01:21 pm (UTC)
speedingtortoise: Happy Platypus (Default)
From: [personal profile] speedingtortoise
I feel the same. His (and Nadia's) decision here seems kinda selfish to me. It's all well and good that he emerged from this as a person who values life in all it's forms and who represents the better part of humanity, but a ton more people are probably going to die because he refused to kill a mass-murdering dictator who has taken over the world. That being said though, he IS just a kid who has been through some pretty rough circumstances, so he can't really be fully blamed for not making the absolute best decision here. I mean hell, I don't think that my 16-year-old self would have mustered the courage to even end up in such a situation.

Date: 2017-08-10 03:18 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] palgrave_goldenrod
Miles is sixteen. If you were mentally and morally capable of killing anyone -- even a fascist dictator -- at that age, well, I'm not sure what that would say about you or the world you live in, but I dare say there's not many who would share that quality.

Date: 2017-08-10 03:20 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] palgrave_goldenrod
Plus, Miles says it himself: "I'm not a killer." That's a personal statement, not a declaration of universal morality.

Date: 2017-08-10 03:57 pm (UTC)
tigerkaya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tigerkaya
Sam you don't deserve that last page you spent your entire run as Cap bitching about how miserable you were that everyone hated you as Cap, than you complained further crying back to your brother and whine how nothing was going your way fighting HYDRA.

You are perhaps one of the worst Captain America to don the costume, even the speech you gave in your book is dreadful.

Face it you need a better writer and you'll only sink lower with a hack like Spencer.
Edited Date: 2017-08-10 04:35 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-10 04:23 pm (UTC)
gravityshock: (Default)
From: [personal profile] gravityshock
The expression on Not-Steve's face as Miles breaks his shield is priceless.

Date: 2017-08-10 05:09 pm (UTC)
deepspaceartist: Iron Man mark 43 (Default)
From: [personal profile] deepspaceartist
It may not be the classic unbreakable shield, but I would imagine it's still made from the strongest metals SHIELD has available. And Miles just shattered it with his bare hands and is coming at him with intent to kill. I'd say that warrants an "Oh Shit!" face even from Steve. Especially as it was revealed that Steve was carrying a cosmic cube fragment and may have been counting on it to let him win the fight.

Date: 2017-08-10 05:45 pm (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
Except he's talking about today's reaction to those 80s comics. Specifically, about how when fans complaining about how modern comics have a 'liberal agenda', when shown those old books, say the difference is that those were done in good fun. As if Mockingbird wearing a shirt that says "Ask me about my feminist agenda" isn't just as much a light-hearted bit of fun.

Date: 2017-08-10 05:46 pm (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
Keep in mind they know Cap's not in his right mind because of the Cosmic Cube. So killing him is essentially killing an innocent pawn.

Date: 2017-08-10 07:14 pm (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
Take it from a guy from a family whose extended family is 98% conservative Republicans: Reagan mockery isn't what they'd call good fun. At best, it's eye-roll worthy.

(Though even the worst anti-Reagan comedy never reached the hatred of Margaret Thatcher in comics, at least from what I've seen.)

Date: 2017-08-10 07:47 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
There's also the entire Black Widow background—her recent arcs have been all about the horror of child soldiers, it makes every sense for her to try as hard as she did to not make Miles into a killer, and his final decision works as the payoff of Natalya's death.

Date: 2017-08-10 08:57 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Well I guess it depends on what's being compared to what. A one-off issue where Reagan gets turned into snake that's generally viewed as an embarrassing issue is not on the same level as half the stuff Spencer's been churning out with Cap.

Date: 2017-08-10 09:13 pm (UTC)
superboyprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] superboyprime
These people complain every time the words 'partriarchy' or 'privilege' so much as appear in a comic. Hell, a while back, I saw some guy unhappy that Ms. Marvel used the word 'manspreading.'

Date: 2017-08-10 09:44 pm (UTC)
full_metal_ox: (Default)
From: [personal profile] full_metal_ox
Although this took place in prose rather than comics, Michael Moorcock has sicced versions of Elric on at least two thinly disguised Thatcher proxies.

Date: 2017-08-10 10:08 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
It's silly that someone would complain about manspreading in a comic and it's silly that a comic would use the word to begin with. But Spencer's gone much further.

Date: 2017-08-11 12:46 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I don't disagree. Spencer's still being obtuse if he thinks his comics are par for the course though.

Date: 2017-08-11 02:47 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I guess I assumed if you were posting a quote from Spencer to preface his comic that it'd be referring to something he wrote and not something unrelated.

Date: 2017-08-11 07:21 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Especially when Option B is a big battle where lots more people (on both sides) will die. How is that better?

Editorially, the "no killing" rule exists to preserve established characters. Better a thousand faceless mooks die than a popular hero with decades of backstory. IRL, I suspect that rule is a legacy of aristocratic bullshit. It's fine if pawns die, but god forbid you kill the king.
Edited Date: 2017-08-11 07:21 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-11 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Well, she's in Avengers: Infinity War, which is out next summer, so she'll probably be back on her feet anywhere between April and July.

Date: 2017-08-12 01:24 am (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Well I responded to the quote under the pretense that he was in part referring to the reaction to his writing. If he wasn't, then... *shrugs*.

Date: 2017-08-12 08:55 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I wouldn't be aghast at Natasha, or even someone like Stark or Clint Barton killing him under these circumstances. But I'd say it's a cause for horror any time a teenage kid is put in a situation where he feels like killing is the answer, and I'm including real world 18-year-old recruits in a volunteer army in that statement.

Date: 2017-08-12 10:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
(a)He's never killed anyone before, and he's too scared to start now. I think he's also of the belief that that doesn't matter who is killed, the killing itself is wrong.

(b)Killing Steve Rogers here would just mean his cohorts would take over, hold him up as a martyr and double down on everything that Steve was holding back on.

(c)If the Heroes do manage to win (which they will, but they don't know that) or somehow undo what happened during this event, Miles would still have the trauma of murdering someone on his mind.

Date: 2017-08-15 05:08 am (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
I am so upset about Widow. Part of my college thesis this year involved her too....


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