superboyprime: (Sun)
[personal profile] superboyprime posting in [community profile] scans_daily


"I've noticed a recurrent phrase in reviews and commentary about NEW VISIONS. Even the most exemplary comments make reference to the fact (and it is fact) that not every single panel in every issue is perfect. The seams show. Sometimes head transplants don't work. Lighting doesn't quite match. Etc. But here's my question: are there ANY comic books, drawn, painted, digital, you name it, that are 100% perfect, first page to last?" - John Byrne































Date: 2017-08-13 06:06 am (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
Well...M'Ress is better than his attempt at Arex a while back, anyway. Even if she's clearly had a cartoony runin with a pane of glass. (Seriously, John, you're an artist...even with the less-than-ideal tools you've set yourself, here, an illusion of depth and three-dimensionality should not be that hard.)

Also, her fur is the wrong colour. <_<

Date: 2017-08-13 06:35 am (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
Also, the art on this book isn't just 'not perfect'. It is work a not particularly proficient amateur would be ashamed to put their name to. Being put into the world by a professional artist who's been working for as long as I have been alive. And, while he has been improving, it's not a lot of improvement. He should have long ago either given up on the format and just drawn it, or stuck to writing and contracted the art to someone who's actually skilled with Photoshop. (In the latter case he could practice, and take over again when he's got his skills up to the level they need to be at!) Talking as though the criticisms are just nitpicking does nothing to make it look any better.

Date: 2017-08-13 06:55 am (UTC)
ozaline: Ozma from Skottie Young and Eric Shanower's Ozma of Oz comic adaptation (Ozma)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
Yeah, I agree also there's the fact that that even the worst anatomically drawn comic of the 90s doesn't, for me anyway, give off immediate uncanny valley-type feeling of "wrongness," that the haphazard rearrangement of whole humans, and body parts in an actual photographed space does here.

Date: 2017-08-13 06:49 am (UTC)
tripodeca113: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tripodeca113
"The seams show. Sometimes head transplants don't work. Lighting doesn't quite match. Etc. But here's my question: are there ANY comic books, drawn, painted, digital, you name it, that are 100% perfect, first page to last?"

Look Byrne there's nothing wrong in admitting you made a mistake. Also comics as a VISUAL MEDIA, rely on the VISUALS.

Is it just me or does that back-up not have a punch line? So Sulu just showed M'ree from the animated show around, is that it?

Date: 2017-08-13 06:56 am (UTC)
ozaline: (topstar)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
I think we're just supposed to be left to imagine Sulu getting some hawt cat-lady action that night.

Date: 2017-08-13 10:14 am (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I'm always surprised at the hostility towards the visual style of these comics. I guess English speakers didn't grow up reading fotonovelas

Date: 2017-08-13 12:37 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
In this case, I think it's mostly because John Byrne is a writer and artist with an impressive resume to his name, and he's capable of so much better than the rather second rate job he's managed here. Seriously, I've seen better edited photocomics using existing material before. The writing is substandard too. And the fact this is supposed to cost money doesn't help.

The fact his comments on the matter are always him doubling down and screaming about how we don't understand his vision just makes it sad. He's proving unable to handle criticism, on a product pretty much intended to invite it.

Date: 2017-08-13 02:46 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (clark (dancin' kent))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
Actually, in the '70s there was a series of Star Trek fotonovels that sold pretty well. I guess for most people, if it didn't happen after they were born, pffft! :)

Date: 2017-08-13 04:55 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
I've seen some but a lot just look stilted, like this for example:



Static images for action just doesn't work imo. They just seem overtly posed and unnatural. Occasionally happens with obvious photo references as well like in Ex Machina for example.
Edited Date: 2017-08-13 04:56 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-13 10:00 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
There is a very specific kind of visual language involved in sequential storytelling to give the impression of movement, something largely separate from just having a good command of anatomy and perspective. Byrne is (or at least used to be) quite good at it when drawing, but apparently the knack just isn't translating over to photo manipulation.

Ironic since I recall him knocking Tim Bradstreet's art for pretty much the same thing back in the 90s. Though Bradstreet wasn't actually trying to tell a sequential story or depict motion in his art, it was more like classical portraiture in a new style.

Edited Date: 2017-08-13 10:01 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-08-13 11:07 pm (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
I'm familiar with photonovellas. My complaint isn't that he's doing photonovellas, it's that he's making such visually terrible photonovellas.

Trying to make a photonovella with compositing, rather than taking pictures for the purpose, or using unaltered screenshots (neither of which is suited to his purpose, here) takes a skill set that he neither has, nor seems inclined to cultivate.

Date: 2017-08-14 07:45 am (UTC)
ozaline: (topstar)
From: [personal profile] ozaline
I've read several professional and fan made fotonovelas or cinecomics. Some of them I've quite enjoyed, a lot aren't my thing, but none of them have repulsed me quite like Byrne's has.

Date: 2017-08-14 12:00 am (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
Some specific complaints, not related to M'Ress.

The whole Rand sequence (both the one from the main story, and the one from the apparent backup) has a couple big ones.

1) Her uniform changes colour from panel to panel, completely irrespective of lighting.

2) Only twice in the entire sequence does anyone actually look in her direction - Nurse Chapel when she first arrives, and Uhura in the mess- despite being in conversation with her, but not engaging in any activity that requires that much attention.

3) Expressions are...weird. Not entirely inappropriate for the most part, but the Ops lady who meets Janice at her new position (dialogue says she's someone we should know, but I don't recognize her) is...vaguely Stepford, and holy crap is Rand sullen when she's on her break. (The shots of Chapel and Uhura were well-chosen on that front, though.)

Not actually related to Rand, but from that sequence, the Telluride, ironically, has no apparent weight at all.

Generally throughout this, most of the major complaints remain - bad CG for locations, props, and aliens not taken from original footage; an almost total lack of lighting and focus matching, resulting in almost nobody looking like they exist in the same space (and, one assumes, when they do, it was because they did in the original footage); frequently inappropriately chosen screenshots.

He has gotten better at cleanly cutting out elements, but seems to have come up with a trick to avoid the hard edges...that does serve that purpose, but frequently results in the opposite problem - edges so fuzzy as to be obviously fake, or giving people auras...and, possibly, occasionally making people partially see-thru - I'm not sure if the bit with Scotty standing in front of the light board is that, or just really ill-chosen positioning, so that the lighting on his face and the details of the board line up juuuuust right so the former seems to be a continuation of the latter.

And that splash page...nobody has shadows, except Spock (whose shadow doesn't match the room lighting) and Uhura. Which does help hide that the lighting doesn't match between characters, or any characters and the set. Checkov is clipping into the console, and one of his legs should be visible, with that pose, if you assume the console isn't there.
Edited Date: 2017-08-14 03:25 pm (UTC)

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