Date: 2017-09-01 09:06 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Nope, even after all these years, still calling bullshit on the JLA calling for his expulsion for having plans to take them down if things hit the fan, and not telling the people who would be subject to those plans in advance what they were, which would, in case of the woman who can compel the truth, and the man who can read minds, sort of render the plan moot.

Even the reasons Ra's had them is that Batman's city was devastated by a massive earthquake and a man with uniquely vast resources got hold of them, rather than Batman just being careless.

Date: 2017-09-01 09:39 pm (UTC)
rainspirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rainspirit
The fact that Flash was so sensitive to Hal Jordan being named makes me kind of get where everyone was coming from. One of their own going batshit crazy (no pun intended) like Hal means they're probably very normal and human.

It's not a very DC sensibility, but I'm more of a Marvel fan anyway, so...

Date: 2017-09-01 10:25 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
DC's more human than they get credit for- and, well, the same writers have moved back and forth between them for decades...

Date: 2017-09-01 11:18 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
Hal went crazy. But Kyle saying "Coast City" makes it sound like Hal went crazy and destroyed Coast City. He actually went crazy wanting to restore Coast City. Or create a ring-made fantasy world, "Emerald Twilight" was a little vague there.

Date: 2017-09-02 06:57 am (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
Yeah, Coast City was destroyed by Cyborg Superman, wasn't it? Right in the middle of claiming to be the real man of steel, reborn?

Date: 2017-09-02 03:20 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
IIRC, it was Mongul. Whether it was Mongul or Cyborg Superman, I'm not sure.

Date: 2017-09-03 12:15 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
It was both of them, if that helps.

Date: 2017-09-01 11:20 pm (UTC)
michaelsaint: (Default)
From: [personal profile] michaelsaint
All valid and true points, but you are thinking like Batman.

I can see the rest of the league overreacting and tossing him out. And as we all know, they do come to their senses later.

Date: 2017-09-03 12:16 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The reason they keep him around is because he DOES think like Batman!

Date: 2017-09-02 12:39 am (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
I think people have such a strong reaction to this because it forces the two sides of our brains to fight.

Yes, logically and objectively, having a plan in case Superman wakes up one morning and decides to make himself Emperor of Everything (with a sweet hat ) or gets bodyjacked by Lex Luthor or driven insane by chartreuse kryptonite is a good idea.

But it's also such an emotional gut punch that we don't want to be objective about it. Plus, we, as readers, know that Superman would never turn evil.

Date: 2017-09-04 02:00 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Turn evil, no. Be manipulated or controlled by others into hurting people a distinct possibility, as Maxwell Lord later proved.

Date: 2017-09-02 01:20 am (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
I have to respectfully disagree there. This storyline and the ones after it makes it pretty clear it was an emotional decision for most of the people involved. If they had waited a month in then voted things migh have, probably would have been different.

But right in the aftermath, yeah this is about how I thought the vote would go reading that story.

Date: 2017-09-02 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
I'm also not sure I buy that they'd be so comfortable with the idea of expulsion like this. I mean they can do it to Bats they can do it to anyone and frankly I feel like there'd end up being a lot of "if he/she goes I go" which would also hurt teamwork

Date: 2017-09-02 10:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] lego_joker
Like I said in a previous post, I think part of the reason they're so pissed is because Bruce isn't *half* this cruel or proactive with the actual criminals and murderers running around his city. If he's got no issue with destroying his teammates on the off-chance they might go bad, why not just go ahead and break every bone in the Joker's body, maybe throw in a little lobotomy on top?

(Actually, y'know what, it would've been hilarious if this story ended with Ra's getting put in every one of the contingency deathtraps, all at the same time.)

Date: 2017-09-01 09:54 pm (UTC)
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)
From: [personal profile] dr_archeville
So who got hold of J'onn's files and used them against the League?

Date: 2017-09-01 10:25 pm (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
I don't think anyone used them, but the League found them, creating bad blood.

Date: 2017-09-01 10:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Alien invaders, IIRC during JLA Year One.

At the time, that loss of control was as devastating as Batman's contingencies falling into Ras' hands, as those files included, at the very least, secret identities of the majority of then active heroes.

Date: 2017-09-02 01:04 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Plas' vote is the one that gets to me the most. If I remember right, his son had a heart-to-heart with Batman to snap him out of his amnesia during that Rogue Martian Manhunter arc.

Also, I wonder if Mark Waid regretted writing this arc the way Alan Moore probably regretted the trend Watchmen started. Was he the one who started this trend of Batdickery, or did he simply bring it to a head here?

Date: 2017-09-02 01:07 am (UTC)
an_idol_mind: (Default)
From: [personal profile] an_idol_mind
I dunno...I personally think Bat-dick traces its origins at least back to Frank Miller.

Date: 2017-09-02 01:33 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Now that you mention it...probably. But if I remember right, not to the exaggerated extent of casual unnecessary dickishness most portrayals of Batman have had since. Can anyone confirm?

I'd like to maintain my question, though, regarding Waid's thoughts on this story.

Date: 2017-09-04 02:07 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
As early as 1987 I remember him having a prickly relationship with his fellow league members where he often kept them in the dark and took a my-way-or-the-highway approach to leadership. Of course, he was dealing with the likes of Guy Gardner, Blue Beetle, and Booster Gold as written by Keith Giffen at the time, so adopting the demeanor of a middle school teacher supervising detention was considerably more appropriate than when it's leveled against Superman, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman.

Date: 2017-09-02 10:30 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] lego_joker
Miller definitely created a prototypical version of it in DKR, but there he at least established it was very, *very* difficult for Bruce just to hold off Clark for a few minutes, and even then Clark was going easy on him.

Heck, even his faking-the-dead trick at the end of the story got busted by Clark in a few seconds, and only succeeded because Clark let it.

Date: 2017-09-03 12:23 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Plastic Man is only in the League because of Batman, who opted for him instead of Elongated Man (who has a much longer history of JL membership than just about anyone) because of his underworld connections as Eel O'Brien.

And as other's have noted, Batdick goes waaaaay back before this, from Frank Miller and the resulting "Batman: Year One" reboot and the likes of the Knightfall and subsequent crossovers where he so vehemently refued any metahuman help within Gotham City.

Date: 2017-09-02 01:05 am (UTC)
an_idol_mind: (Default)
From: [personal profile] an_idol_mind
Batman in this arc reminds me of a recent quote from Rick and Morty: "When you’re an asshole, it doesn’t matter how right you are, no one wants to give you the satisfaction."

Date: 2017-09-02 01:11 am (UTC)
an_idol_mind: (Default)
From: [personal profile] an_idol_mind
Just a random thing about that last page...why does the JLA have assigned seating?

Date: 2017-09-02 01:36 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Someone had a few minutes to practice with Photoshop? The logos aren't even contoured right.

Seriously, though, the table would've been enough.

Date: 2017-09-02 05:28 am (UTC)
katefan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] katefan
Because the guys kept fighting over who got to sit next to Wonder Woman. They probably switch off every week.

Date: 2017-09-04 02:09 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I was about to make a crack about that being why it's good to have more diversity in super hero teams, but really that probably wouldn't make any difference in the proposed scenario.

Date: 2017-09-02 01:15 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
I don't know, but what I want to know is, do they have a Siege Perilous?

(Surely someone's done JLA as Knights of the Round Table by now?)

Date: 2017-09-02 03:19 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
There have been some Elseworlds like that.

Batman: Dark Knight of the Round Table by Bob Layton and Dick Giordano.

Superman: Kal by Dave Gibbons and Jose Luis Garcia-Lopez.

League of Justice by Ed Hannigan and Dick Giordano.

Date: 2017-09-03 12:19 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
They don't, and given how "well" the MCU one works, that's probably just as well. The Seige Perilous is really, really, bad at it's job.

Date: 2017-09-02 03:18 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] silicondream
IIRC, the core members all had monogrammed chairs (and custom-designed permanent living quarters, for that matter.) I don't remember whether the rotating members did too, but I vaguely recall a scene in which a new logo was being etched on a seat for a member just coming on active duty.

Date: 2017-09-03 12:20 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Because it's cooler than nameplates?

Date: 2017-09-02 04:43 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (jla (lj))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
That's the Wonder Woman way of doing things with that bad guy. :)

I could see the vote going this way and understanding it. How could any of them trust Batman after this? At the least he should have been put on probation to see if he could earn their trust back, but he can't even be bothered to wait for the decision.


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