Date: 2017-09-06 03:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Booooo!

Date: 2017-09-06 04:01 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Kitty needs the secondary mutation of "able to recognized unhealthy relationships".

Date: 2017-09-06 06:11 pm (UTC)
dcbanacek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dcbanacek
There are more than a few folks in the Marvelverse who could use that.

Date: 2017-09-06 04:12 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
Yeah, this book failed to live up to my hopes on so many levels.

Date: 2017-09-06 11:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
I had absolutely no hopes for this series since its announcement. The line up is an obvious and uninspired Claremont rehash because apparently we're not allowed to leave the goddamn 80s, Storm stepping down to let Kitty lead and then disappearing into the background is unforgivable, Rachel's new costume and codename are both so dumb, almost as dumb as moving the school into the middle of Central Park

And don't forget that its written by Guggenheim who's brought such great hits as Arrow or Young X-men.

This book never stood a chance

Date: 2017-09-06 11:32 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Empowered - Sigh)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
I automatically hold out hope for any book that has Kitty and Rachel in it, as well as Kurt. But it was pretty clear when Guggenheim started talking about what great 'friends' Kitty was with Rachel it wasn't going to actually go in the direction I hoped.

Date: 2017-09-07 12:25 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Faiza Hussain from MI:13 (Faiza)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
Same, and while I didn't necessarily expect a Rachel/Kitty relationship, this is really not what I wanted.

Date: 2017-09-07 01:40 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
Marc Guggenheim has worked as a film writer as well. Unfortunately, the films he wrote were Green Lantern and Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters.

Date: 2017-09-06 04:26 pm (UTC)
rainspirit: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rainspirit
Kitty no you deserve so much better :(

Date: 2017-09-06 04:40 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
Sorry, I know it's not a popular pair around here and I recognize and understand why many would have a problem with it, but I still ship them. I guess I'm just old-fashioned like that when it comes to X-pairs.

Date: 2017-09-06 08:52 pm (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
The way they were in the late '80s/early '90s, I'm right there with you. I ship that Kitty and Piotr to the end of time. The decades of character development they've had since, though...

Classic KP was sweet, modern KP is deeply unhealthy.

Date: 2017-09-07 09:01 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Not sure what time period you're thinking of there.

Kitty and Peter broke up as a couple following Secret Wars back in 1984 and AFAIK never got back together again as a couple until Whedon. They were on the same team at times, but were never an item.

Date: 2017-09-06 04:42 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
Is there anyone who wants this ship?

Date: 2017-09-06 05:53 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
Fair enough. Knew there had to be at least one.

Enjoy yourself. Hope this voyage goes better than the last one.

Date: 2017-09-07 02:50 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] xakko
you aren't alone, but... terrible writers have made me hesitant.

but then, if this sets Jason Aaron to chewing on his own liver, then I guess I'm OK with it.

Date: 2017-09-07 09:53 pm (UTC)
indy2012: (Default)
From: [personal profile] indy2012
My favorite comic pairing outside of Bruce/Harvey.

Date: 2017-09-06 05:07 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Kitty has plainly outgrown Piotr. What the hell is the point of this, beyond fanservice?

Date: 2017-09-06 06:10 pm (UTC)
dcbanacek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dcbanacek
When the next writer comes along and decides to torpedo the relationship for more angst or so he can introduce someone else named Peter for Kitty to go after, might as well make it Peter Parker at this point like in the Ultimateverse, then they'll be apart for another couple of years until another writer with nostalgia hooks them up again.

It's a really vicious cycle.

Date: 2017-09-06 06:49 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Hows about Pietro (Quicksilver)? Because fuck 'em, that's why.

Date: 2017-09-06 06:34 pm (UTC)
michaelsaint: (Default)
From: [personal profile] michaelsaint
I admit, I have not followed X-men all that well but why do people hate Kitty and Peter being together???

Date: 2017-09-06 06:47 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
For me, it's because the relationship is over. They dated in the equivalent of high school, they broke up, they should both move on. Dating your high school hunny after you've gone in different directions is almost always a bad idea.

Date: 2017-09-06 09:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Because Piotr is terrible.

"If only you were older"

*falls for healer from Secret Wars*

"Forces beyond our control pull us apart"

*knocks up woman in Savage Land*

"I just want my beloved to be happy"

*Beats up guy Kitty is currently dating*


Date: 2017-09-06 10:24 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
It's more recent than that for me. I was onboard with them as a couple during Whedon's Astonishing X-Men run, but after Peter volunteered to be Cyttorak's hand-puppet and served up a heaping mound of stalkery creepiness in Avengers vs. X-Men I don't think there's anything to save.

Mind you, I'm not fan of Kitty's Jiffy Pop marriage to Peter Quill, and I like her and Bobby better as exes than girlfriend and boyfriend during their blink-and-you'll-miss-it relationship.

Date: 2017-09-07 09:31 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
In his defence (and I say this out of pedantic continuity rather than any real interest in defending Piotr) , Kitty hadn't even been introduced when he met Nereel in the Savage Land back in X-Men 114.

I think he is still unaware that Nereel's child is his, because though he's met the boy, Colossus is something of an idiot.

Date: 2017-09-08 07:20 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
As I recall, Nereel's son is also named Peter. The boy looks just like Piotr, and is the only white kid in a tribe that looks Native American. So Piotr knows that his ex has a son that was conceived around the time they were together, that looks like him, that is named after him, and that is rather obviously not 100% Savage Lander. And he still hasn't put 2 and 2 together.

Not exactly the sharpest tool in the shed.

Date: 2017-09-06 11:34 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Hellcat Gah!)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
Because any time Piotr is around Kitty relationship-wise he turns into a creepy, obsessive, controlling man-child.

Date: 2017-09-07 12:20 am (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile


Yep, it's not creepy and obsessive at all.
Edited Date: 2017-09-07 12:21 am (UTC)

Date: 2017-09-07 12:30 am (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
But regardless, there is a repeated pattern of behaviour in the narrative that essentially boils down to abuse and usually it's shrugged off with a "isn't love grand?" dismissal in-comic. The only time a character has genuinely addressed what a terrible fucking person Piotr has been to Kitty is when Kurt called him out on it in the issue after his attempted murder of Pete. I know multiple writers may have multiple opinions on a relationship, and that will result on multiple different takes on it, but boy does it send out mixed messages when you have one group of writers romanticizing a relationship and another group writing it as something terrible and abusive. It’s a case where editors really need to get their shit together. It’s especially terrible when you get a writer acknowledging a character has done something awful in another title, but basically excuses it or ignores it to push the ship back on track again.

But honestly, any time a character refers to a partner as "my X" repeatedly, like Colossus does with "my Katya" all the time, is a sure sign of a relationship that should be set fire to and dumped in a land fill.

Date: 2017-09-07 12:57 am (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
And when they crop up time and time again, it's not one-offs, it's a pattern.

Date: 2017-09-06 11:39 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
Plus it's dragging Kitty back to a relationship that she was trying to make work when she was 13 and Piotr was a grown ass adult. A number of us feel it's a step back for a character who showed repeatedly that she had grown up and moved on to bring it back, particularly coupled with the emotional regression that went hand i hand with it.

Date: 2017-09-07 12:44 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
The impression I had when Colossus was first introduced was that he was 17 years-old, so it wasn't my impression that he was an actual adult. That doesn't make their original relationship okay, nor does it make his attack on Pete Wisdom okay, either (although that age difference was even greater in that relationship's case, afaict). But I think that if we're going to assume that Kitty is now a full adult, the difference between them in ages now should be pretty much irrelevant. Part of this is the nebulous nature of character ages in comics: Piotr's older brother managed to be a cosmonaut, implying he was probably in his late 20s at least, while his little sister is originally introduced as being at least 10 years younger than him. Now she looks like she's late teens/early twenties and he's entered the generic adult zone of superheroes.

I liked it when Whedon got them back together, but that's possibly because I'm one of those readers who lapsed in the 90s when Claremont and Simonson were thrown out and skipped a good chunk of what happened after. Whedon's run was obviously intended to pull some of that audience back in (as was, to a degree IMHO, Morrison's run). I think it succeeded at that. Some runs have felt like blatant character assassination to me, but since I started with the character when he was new in the 70s, my perspective is colored from there.

Date: 2017-09-07 01:56 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
18 when he debuted, I believe. A few years before Kitty made her first appearance. I always understood he was around 20 at the time of Secret Wars, or possibly older as he's shown drinking with Nightcrawler and Wolverine, so presumably of US drinking age.

Date: 2017-09-08 07:24 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Keep in mind Illyana was aged up due to spending years in Limbo, during which only moments passed for everyone else. (She was subsequently de-aged then re-aged because of shenanigans.) She's now roughly Kitty's age.

Date: 2017-09-07 04:44 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
Not specific to the relationship, but I feel Colossus needs some growing up to do. He's super-protective of his loved ones, sometimes to the point of obsession, and can really idealize them.

Back when he had Juggernaut's gem, Illyana purposefully didn't free him from the curse for some time just so when she did she could illustrate she really is not the sweet innocent girl him- and only him- saw her as and kept treating her as. Kitty doesn't get it quite to that extent, but I feel a lot of the time his image of relationships trump the reality, he needs to look at his loved ones through a friend's eyes and not just an idealized eye IMO.

I'm kinda soured on him due to his treatment of the New X-men kids too. "How dare you not want to go into a hellish Limbo dimension and think she's some kind of monster, just because last time she took you there against your will *you* had an arm ripped off, *you* discovered you can survive being exploded, and *you* witnessed one of your friends have her heart ripped out repeatedly. Oh, and you had part of your soul removed." They ended up helping him help her *anyway*, but he was not the most grateful.


Like, back when Colossus was first resurrected in Astonishing, I was all for them getting back together- age was less of a concern, they cared for each other, etc.- but Peter's metal finish has grown quite tarnished.

Date: 2017-09-07 09:10 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The mutual crush was weird but tolerably-cute (provided nothing ever actually happened between them) when she was 13 and he was a painfully naive 18-ish fish out of water, but I was relieved they broke up back in 1984, and ever since then any attempt for him to get back with her has seemed very very forced, or just downright creepy.

Them leaping into bed together as soon as he came back from the dead in Astonishing was a world of nope to me and nothing about it since then has made me think it was a healthy relationship.

Date: 2017-09-07 05:05 pm (UTC)
deh_tommy: (Robots in Disguise)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
I'm still so confused, whatever happened to her marriage with Star Lord? Did she get to keep her upgrade from the Black Vortex, at least?
Edited Date: 2017-09-07 05:06 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-09-07 08:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] long_silence
They didn't get married. They were engaged.

And then Peter was elected as King of Spartax while Kitty stayed with the Guardians as the new Star-Lord. It was really weirdly written, apparently Kitty thought the galaxy needed Star-Lord more than Spartax needed a king who wasn't evil. And she was really bitter when he would have to cancel dinner dates or miss phone calls because again he was the duly elected leader of an entire planet and had other responsibilities. So they broke up, and then Peter got deposed as King and he rejoined the Guardians and they were just awkward exes on the same team until CW2 when they got stuck on Earth for a period of time and Kitty decided to stay behind.

As far as I can tell Kitty's Black Vortex powers just kind of faded? It happened to Gamora, apparently they can only use so much cosmic energy before it runs out. Of course Angel and Ronan are still using theirs regularly so maybe the Black Vortex is just sexist.

Date: 2017-09-07 10:08 pm (UTC)
indy2012: (Default)
From: [personal profile] indy2012
Mileage varies. I'm still into this ship. I'm usually selective with my continuity and am not rigid about things that are "officially canon." I will downright disregard poorly-written stories (Poison Ivy: Cycle of Life and Death never happened in my book). These characters go through so many different creative teams and eras that it feels ridiculous to me sometimes to try to reconcile events that happened in 1984 with 2017. 50s and 60s Batman is supposed to take place on the same timeline as 70s Batman??

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