Date: 2017-09-22 05:20 am (UTC)
tsunamiwombat: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tsunamiwombat
I'm not really sure how to respond to this.

Date: 2017-09-22 06:02 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kd_the_movie
Having Ghost!Jean pal around with Teen!Jean looks pretty fun but the whole body hijacking hijinks (which looks like it HURTS teen!Jean) is being weirdly being played for laughs

Date: 2017-09-22 09:47 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
So does ANYONE actually think the ghost is the original Jean? Based on the scans of ghost_Jean I've seen, Jean Grey was never this negative or aggressive* and has been shown in a few iterations to be friendly with Wanda.

* Except in the case of Emma, and despite the deeply personal reasons for the aggression there, I've never felt we were entirely supposed to be on Jean's side in that encounter.

Date: 2017-09-22 10:01 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shadur
And no matter how much the original Jean might dislike Emma, she still wouldn't attempt a Grand Theft Me on her because she wouldn't countenance GTM, period. I recognize that being a bodiless ghost may have made her a bit desperate and impatient, but not /that/ much.

Date: 2017-09-22 10:06 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
In fairness, Jean's psychic violation of Emma when she discovered that Emma and Scott were having an affair is possibly the most uncomfortable to read use of psychic abilities I can remember in the X-Men.

Date: 2017-09-22 01:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] remial
maybe, but she also realized that she was toxic, not just to Scott, but to pretty much everyone, so she psychicly pushed Scott into coupling up with Emma.

Date: 2017-09-22 01:20 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
But by that point wasn't she dead and it pretty much didn't matter to her?

Date: 2017-09-22 01:25 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] capnduckman
So... Ultimate Jean Grey?

Date: 2017-09-22 02:23 pm (UTC)
thenicochan: (Manga!Outers)
From: [personal profile] thenicochan
Which is probably why it's so interesting. It's such a gross misuse of power, and one that Jean would likely not have done under normal circumstances. I don't think we're supposed to really root for either side in that particular fight-- it's more of a "wrongness begets wrongness". Emma, clearly, did something considered morally wrong by her predatory relationship with a married Scott, but Jean responded in a clearly, undeniably, atrocious (if not understandable) way.

Date: 2017-09-22 03:29 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I've never been able to hold Emma THAT responsible for the break up of the marriage, which was already on the rocks at best before she showed any interest in Scott. We'd seen Jean and Scott drifting apart as Jean's powers expanded.

She certainly didn't help of course, but the she didn't create the situation.

There's even the scene where Jean appears to attempt to seduce Wolverine whilst they're walking in the words, possibly to make Scott jealous (psychically aware that Scott is watching them through binoculars for reasons which escape me).

Date: 2017-09-22 04:29 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
I thought Scott and Jean were drifting apart because of his possession by Apocalypse

Date: 2017-09-22 05:03 pm (UTC)
shakalooloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shakalooloo
That's the reason that Cyclops gives.

Date: 2017-09-22 05:35 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I don't think that helped, but IIRC Jean is slowly ascending to her Phoenix state again, and her perceptions shift too, she was becoming a little less human, and a lot more Phoenix.

Date: 2017-09-23 01:07 am (UTC)
sapphite: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sapphite
As much as I liked Scott and Emma together, I do place a lot of blame for the breakup at her feet. Mostly because she was acting as Scott's therapist at the time. Engaging in a romantic or sexual relationship with one of your patients is a huge violation of medical ethics and completely betrays Scott's entire reason for seeking treatment.

They were good together as a couple, but there was a massive ugly side to the way they got together even before you factor in Scott and Jean's relationship.

Date: 2017-09-23 03:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
Agreed.

Characterization, IMO, wasn't Grant's strong sit on X-Men. I had a hard time believing that Jean would care more about her powers than her husband, and Emma's actions were a complete violation of trust.

You'd think that James Patterson wrote it.

Date: 2017-09-22 10:34 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
Because of teen!Jean's consistent lack of concern when violating other people's privacy (I don't know if the have addressed that), I do feel this is kind consistent. I could even see ghost!Jean rationalizing "well, she IS me, so she probably is okay with this"

Date: 2017-09-22 11:20 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I think she's improved on her general telepathic ethics.

In her defence, her long locked-away telepathy only kicked in when she time travelled (main timeline Jean wouldn't get her telepathy for a few years when Xavier unlocked her access to it), so she'd never had the sort of training in it's use that Xavier would have been able to give her

Date: 2017-09-22 03:27 pm (UTC)
deh_tommy: (Lex Luthor)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
Consistently? Didn't that only really happen that one time with Iceman?

Even if I'm wrong there, though, she has been shown in X-Men: Blue catching and stopping herself from invading other people's minds without permission.

Date: 2017-09-22 04:38 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
again, I haven't been following the x-men for a while, but that was only one of many instances of her violating othe rpeople's privacy.

Date: 2017-09-22 08:30 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
And she's done worse than just violate people's privacy. Early on she altered Angel's mind so he'd agree to stay in the future.

Date: 2017-09-23 01:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] mindsweeper
In terms of the just reading people's minds, it was a Bendis thing and I actually liked it. It felt more real to me. I loved how he had her get lectured then just keep doing it. Manipulating Angel was bad, but I thought just eavesdropping gave her an interesting personality quirk.

Plus it created fun moments like when she learned about Wanda then blasted all the Avengers.

Date: 2017-09-23 01:35 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
That's fine and good. it's still too "invasion of people's privacy" for my liking.

Date: 2017-09-23 12:02 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Yeah, casually reading people's innermost thoughts is more than just a quirk, it's an issue that any telepath should address as a matter of ethical consideration for others.

Date: 2017-09-24 03:20 am (UTC)
rfmcdonald: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rfmcdonald
But is any telepath going to refrain from that? Xavier and Emma Frost, to name two examples not at random, did not do a very good job respecting the privacy of others.

Date: 2017-09-22 08:46 pm (UTC)
balbanes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Maybe it's Madelyne Pryor? Sure she's recently come back in corporeal form to menace Jean in one of the X-titles, but why not?

Date: 2017-09-22 08:59 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Nine times out of ten it's Mystique but this time, I'm inclined to doubt it.

Might be Madelyne, I was thinking more some variation of the Malice entity.

Date: 2017-09-22 11:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
isn't this kind of massively beyond Malice's power?

Date: 2017-09-23 12:33 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Nothing a good (or bad) handwaving can't fix.

Date: 2017-09-23 12:00 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I don't think so, Malice accesses the powers of whoever she's in, so if she's been in Jean, she's had access to Jean's powers, and in Emma's form she'll have access to her powers too.

Date: 2017-09-23 10:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
I don't think walking around as an astral form/ghost of a different person should be doable for her though

Date: 2017-09-24 01:20 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Malice basically IS an astral form though and looks like her host when she's existing in them (I'm not sure we've ever seen Malice having an actual appearance of her own beyond the old cameo choker)

Plus she's existing within Jean Grey and is using her abilities. Since she's only visble to Jean it's not hard to see how a psychic being could use a psychic host to make a psychic projection of a slightly altered version of said host.

It's STILL probably going to be Mystique though! :)

Date: 2017-09-22 11:35 am (UTC)
cainofdreaming: cain's mark (pic#364829)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
Well, Ghost of Christmas Future Past was bound to happen sooner or later.

Date: 2017-09-22 07:54 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
I'm not a big follower of the character but she does not seem like herself here.

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