Date: 2018-01-17 01:52 pm (UTC)
lieut_kettch: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lieut_kettch
Didn’t she do much the same thing with Supes and the Norse pantheon?

Date: 2018-01-17 03:04 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Yep. IIRC they were there for 1000 years though.

Meh. Never been a fan of Diana's immortality (nor Clark's, for that matter. One of my favourite Superman-related pieces of media is that episode of the old live-action series where he gives up his eternal youth to save Jimmy).

Date: 2018-01-17 05:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
well, without immortality Diana's actually lesser than the other Amazons

Date: 2018-01-17 06:28 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Is she? Personally, I strongly disagree.

The classical theme of immortality is that, by being stuck in time, you can't ever truly live. A very common saying in stories that deal with that theme is "mortals live more fully in a year than we do in a millennia."

Date: 2018-01-17 08:30 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
King talked about it on twitter here: https://twitter.com/TomKingTK/status/952622097968369664

Basically, he had never read the Action Comics story and now feels really bad about it. He said if he had known, he would've either rewritten the story or give an inspiration credit.

Date: 2018-01-17 02:02 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
Okay. I am going to give the "almost kiss" a pass because, hey, ten years alone IS an awful lot of time... but Diana's dialogue feels... off.

Date: 2018-01-19 05:24 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kalanyr
Yeah, I noticed that too.

It's structured like it's trying to convey English as a secondary language (using some of the other languages rules that don't apply to English).

Or the approximate dialogue for this was sketched out using some form of shorthand and someone forgot to clean up Diana's dialogue.

Either way it's pretty jarring since Diana doesn't speak like that anywhere else.
Edited Date: 2018-01-19 05:30 am (UTC)

Date: 2018-01-21 10:00 pm (UTC)
kamino_neko: Tedd from El Goonish Shive. Drawn by Dan Shive, coloured by Kamino Neko. (Default)
From: [personal profile] kamino_neko
Yeah. Someone really needs to get Tom King a Wonder Woman collection. Rucka or Simone preferably, but even lesser writers have a better grasp of her voice than he's evidencing here. King's a good writer in general, but he's apparently been given the wrong idea of Diana's speech patterns.

Date: 2018-01-17 02:16 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (ShockedMags)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
Is this how they sink the BatCat ship? Two months in?

Date: 2018-01-17 02:38 pm (UTC)
drmanbot: Dr. Manbot Xmas Special (Default)
From: [personal profile] drmanbot
dude just got engaged literally 3 seconds ago.

boooo.

Man I am cynical this morning...

Date: 2018-01-19 12:09 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I find myself surprised that Diana's recent movie has made me more protective of her romance with Steve Trevor—I was fine with them being platonic friends from the Perez era onward—than of Batman's with Catwoman.

Or perhaps it's just that I bristle at any hint of Diana being passed like a prize between the other two members of DC's trinity. ("We can't have her with Clark anymore, let's give her to Batman!")

Date: 2018-01-17 03:19 pm (UTC)
lucean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucean
...So I'm a huge fan of Bruce/Diana ship, I admit that, but this feels like a really odd way to do this. Of course this was just the cliffhanger, so who knows what will happen in the next issue.

By the way, a curiosity question about King's run. I haven't been as big of a fan of it than others, which is fine as this is a subjective form of entertainment after all, so I'm wondering if I'm being too harsh on feeling that King is focusing too much on Batman's vulnerabilities? Not that I don't like those vulnerabilities or flaws, but it really doesn't feel like there have been many instances during this run when Batman overcomes things. Mostly it is just people calling Batman out or making very dismissive comments about him with everything just rolling on in the story. I'm having so much difficulties explaining it that I am now again almost convinced that it is me being too hard on it.

Date: 2018-01-17 06:23 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
I am going to admit, I have a much bigger problem with things like "guy who dresses like a child's fantasy" or "you look ridiculous" tongue-in-cheek comments or the "it stands for hope. it stands for a bat". I don't know if it is just humor or Tom King feeling the need to point out the silly elements in Batman, but they are starting to feel too much.

Another problem, which I don't recall if was present at the start of his run but feels more obvious as the series goes on. Not that he focused in his vulnerabilities exactly... but that characters have the need to TALK about Batman and get into quasi-philosophical speeches. I will admit. I skipped most of the superman/Batman crossover because a lot of the dialogue was seemingly commentary on Superman & Batman as characters rather than what I wanted, which was basically Superman #7 only with Bruce and Selina in the place of Jon (though I admit thismay been my own expectations)

This wasn't a problem with Vision, but that is mostly because King had made the artistic choice of having an omniscient narrator, and that kind of narration allows you for that kind of writing.

Date: 2018-01-17 07:55 pm (UTC)
lucean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucean
I agree, all of that also annoys me, but I do include the vulnerability point as it is basically Tom King constantly just driving home how Batman is a just a dude in a silly costume.

The reason I think it is starting to feel too much isn't that King does it, but rather that there aren't any moments of Batman being awesome in between. I get the idea of presenting Batman's humanity through such narrative tools, that contradiction in Batman is what makes him so great, but after the Bane storyline, King has just basically kept on telling us what a stunted man-child Batman is without really featuring the heights he has been able to reach.

And I think the omniscient narrator point is a really good one as there is a difference in the narrator mocking the story while us still seeing the brutality of the moment to basically a character mockingly monologuing about Batman before another character mockingly monologues about Batman.

Date: 2018-01-17 04:36 pm (UTC)
cosmos666: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cosmos666
NO! Just NO!

Why is this always the route they take when it comes to Diana and either Clark or Bruce?

It vexes me tremendously because it reduces Diana to a blow-up doll.

And they forgot about Steve too. For God's sake, this is King's first misstep.

Date: 2018-01-18 01:07 am (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
I'm not co signing the pairings, but most likely, it has something to do with the 3 of them being the most perfect people in the world...i mean, what's Steve, got on Superman, or Batman? What's Lois, or any woman in the DCU got on WW? I dunno...I just hope this doesn't ruin Bruce+Selina, but i wouldn't be surprised if it did...God forbid we have nice things.

Date: 2018-01-18 02:44 am (UTC)
cosmos666: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cosmos666
Clark, Bruce and Diana have very different world views and outlooks in life besides being perfect doesn't mean being perfect to each other.

And really the way you devalue both Steve and Lois like if you don't have super powers you are worthless. It's really awful.

Date: 2018-01-18 03:43 am (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
If i devalued Lois, and Steve, it's only because Lois, and Steve are secondary character's in a fictional world ...the argument could be made, that they each have less value than a sheet of toilet paper...because toilet paper is actually real, and useful/valuable. Im not going to show Lois, Steve, or any fictional being the same respect/compassion/empathy that i would show a actual person. So let what i said be awful...it was honestly meant to be speculative, but you take it anyway you want.

Date: 2018-01-18 05:09 am (UTC)
cosmos666: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cosmos666
So only primary characters should be considered important and valued? We all know how important a supporting cast is in comics, once they make the story feel fuller and more tangible. These characters may start as supporting but they all develop into their own entities and a lot of people are as attached to them as they are to the leads. There is a reason why a lot of people are complaining about this issue.

And the second part of your comment really devalues the writers and artists who spent hours creating their work and us who spent time and money consuming it.

Date: 2018-01-18 05:33 am (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
So me saying I'm not going to give fictional people such as Lois Lane, Steve Trevor, or Sideshow Bob, the same respect I show actual people like my Father, your Grandmother, Jimmy Carter, or the pizza delivery guy, somehow translates to me devaluing people who read, and create comic books?

Date: 2018-01-19 12:16 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
I think it was more your toilet paper comparison that was devaluing and, frankly, offensive. If you don't believe that art has any value or expressions of it merit any respect, why even come here to discuss it with others?

Date: 2018-01-19 12:38 pm (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
I love comics, and they have value to me, but only as a form of entertainment. If I had to compare comics, and their characters to the value, of let's say my children, my wife, or some random person on the street, then yeah, comics have zero value, in comparison. I don't see how it's wrong for me to value a human life, more than I value a fictitious one? I also don't see how it's offensive? By your handle I can see that you're a Hockey fan...with all the ugliness in the NHL (rampant racism and the unnecessary violence) it's hard to see how this could offend you.
Edited Date: 2018-01-19 12:38 pm (UTC)

Date: 2018-01-19 12:56 pm (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
I appreciate the effort that comic creators, construction workers, shoe makers, electricians, or any other human being puts behind their work, but I don't appreciate that work as much as I appreciate the human life behind it. I just think people are 1,000,000 times more important than the thing they create or chose to do. I guess that makes me a asshole in this community....oh well. Feel free to have the last word, I've spent more time on this than I should have. Apologies if that comes off as rude, or dismissive.

Date: 2018-01-18 05:58 am (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
Like I said, take it anyway you want. Btw I won't be apologizing to Steve, or Lois, until they jump off the page of a comic book, and become flesh and blood.

Date: 2018-01-17 06:33 pm (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
The worst part of this is that there is no way Diana can come out of this untarnished. If Batman gives into it, she's a homewrecker, if he doesn't, she's the poor girl with an unrequited love directed at the Batgod.

Date: 2018-01-17 07:32 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
Does Diana give a shit?

I honestly have no clue what her cultural taboos, feelings on relationships are. Like do Amazons have an "at war/in jail" exception clause? Does sex count? I have no clue.

I will say that it does bother me she is being used as a prop here. Basically just to compare Bruce to Clark and thats it.

Date: 2018-01-17 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
Diana, at the very least, is respectful of other women. in action comics #960, when she discovers clark is married to Lois, she immediatly accepts it and moves on.
and even if Diana wasn't necessarily a believer of Monogamy, she knows most people from "the world of man" are and that doing this is considered very disrespectful, at the very least.

Date: 2018-01-17 08:03 pm (UTC)
lucean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucean
The more I think what King is doing here with Diana, the more it annoys me. Not just because it does minimize Diana, but even worse it really reduces the Diana/Bruce relationship. Batman and Wonder Woman have a fascinating dynamic that I don't think gets explored enough, but even they have this rich history.

So reducing them to this, a temptation tainting Bruce, it just discards that relationship in this story. I would even be okay, although not ecstatic, if they had build up some sort of attraction between Bruce and Diana on the background and had it be some kind of choice instead of being this 'we're both here, so why not?'

I think all of these current issues I have with the run kind of lead to Selina Kyle. As I was pondering on it, I realized that King keeps writing her as this idealized woman who is there to patiently love the undeserving idiot known as Bruce Wayne. And because of that, all the fallacity has to be on Bruce. I get the narrative, but it also relies very heavily on just accepting that romance and the concept of Seling of being perfect.

Date: 2018-01-17 06:47 pm (UTC)
dcbanacek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dcbanacek
You would think Diana of all people would know, because of Atlas, what happens when someone relieves a person of a burden thinking they'll come right back and pick it back up again.

Date: 2018-01-17 08:50 pm (UTC)
ovaltinepatrol: Chairman Kaga from Iron Chef (Default)
From: [personal profile] ovaltinepatrol
Maybe the Gentle Man is actually Sleez in disguise, and this whole thing is some reality TV show for Apokolips.

Date: 2018-01-18 04:41 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
So Tom King seriously added 10 years of life experience to Bruce's life (and no way is he at all going to act as somebody who hasn't seen any of his loved ones for ten years) just to justify him considering hooking up with Diana?

Date: 2018-01-18 05:47 am (UTC)
joetuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] joetuss
The more I think about this, the more I realize that this is a fake out. I guarantee you they're not leaning towards each other, but to the bowl of Doritos between them.

Date: 2018-01-18 09:17 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
I get that, but that just makes the whole thing even dumber. Why does fiction have this goofy idea that if a person spends decades away from someone, as long as it's only been a short while from that someone's perspective, they would act exactly as they did right before they left them (especially when the same fiction tends to show how traumatic and life changing experiences can happen in mere DAYS).

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