Date: 2018-01-20 02:28 pm (UTC)
randyripoff: (Your Panties)
From: [personal profile] randyripoff
That Warren Ellis is such a scamp. We all know he's really about rainbows and unicorns.

Date: 2018-01-20 02:42 pm (UTC)
steverequin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] steverequin
Irish God-hating unicorns, of course.

Date: 2018-01-20 02:31 pm (UTC)
bizarrohulk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bizarrohulk
The problem with having a "Wolverine" on the team to do the dirty work that the lawful good characters won't is that it still requires the supposedly lawful good characters to look the other way while "Wolverine" (or in this case Moon Knight and Black Widow) does his thing. As if there's any moral difference between torturing someone yourself and leaving the room while someone else does it on your behalf.

Date: 2018-01-20 03:00 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
Not a torturer, just okay with the results of torture.

Yeah, that is not a good look on anyone.

Date: 2018-01-20 02:49 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Lora, crafting. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
If it wasn't for the lettering in Secret Avengers, I could believe all these characters existed in the same universe.

Date: 2018-01-20 02:59 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
Well torture doesn't work. That doesn't mean that torture cannot get people to talk, that it does do, which is where a lot of writers and readers get confused. Torture does make people talk, eventually. There is a reason why the old saying is that everybody talks on the third day, so no denying that.

What torture doesn't do is make people tell the truth. The tortured want a way out and give the torturer what they think they want to hear. Sometimes that is the truth, often it isn't. That is because a torturer always has an agenda, and that agenda is usually pretty obvious, and so the tortured person is incentivised to align their views with the torturer.

Torture produces a mess of contradictory statements, one of which may or may not be the truth. It is one of the reasons that part of special forces training in resisting torture involves training how to give counterproductive information. It is especially ineffective in ticking clock scenarios too, where giving out false info buys time for the clock to run out and wasting the torturer and their forces' time chasing down false leads instead of investigating leads that might actually be the truth.

#rantover

Date: 2018-01-21 04:15 am (UTC)
toby_wan_kenobi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] toby_wan_kenobi
I would pick up the thread and continue ranting, but I would basically just be repeating your points with more swear words.

Date: 2018-01-21 10:17 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Yep. Remember when soldiers were whining that somehow inexplicably NO WAIIII doing what Jack Bauer did IRL did not actually result in prisoners telling them everything?

Nevermind the fact that those soldiers openly admitted they tortured people and nothing was done about it. Or that actual military forces where using procedures from freaking TV shows.

Date: 2018-01-22 05:58 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
It technically does work in the long run because it breaks the victim down enough that they begin identifying with their torturer via Stockholm Syndrome and end up wanting to provide them with valid information. But that's a long, involved psychological process. Just stabbing or squeezing until someone screams doesn't yield credible information no matter how desperate Kiefer Sutherland is to beat the clock.

Date: 2018-01-21 04:00 am (UTC)
tripodeca113: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tripodeca113
Isn't torture an inefficient way of getting information?

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