alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
[personal profile] alicemacher posting in [community profile] scans_daily



"I was talking earlier — about anarchy and fascism being the two poles of politics. On one hand you’ve got fascism, with the bound bundle of twigs, the idea that in unity and uniformity there is strength; on the other you have anarchy [...] where the individual determines his or her own life. Now if you move that into the spiritual domain, then in religion, I find very much the spiritual equivalent of fascism. The word "religion" comes from the root word ligare [...] and basically means "bound together in one belief." It’s basically the same as the idea behind fascism; there’s not even necessarily a spiritual component it. Everything from the Republican Party to the Girl Guides could be seen as a religion, in that they are bound together in one belief. So to me, like I said, religion becomes very much the spiritual equivalent of fascism. And by the same token, magic becomes the spiritual equivalent of anarchy, in that it is purely about self-determination, with the magician simply a human being writ large, and in more dramatic terms, standing at the center of his or her own universe. Which I think is a kind of a spiritual statement of the basic anarchist position."
-- Alan Moore, in Margaret Killjoy, Mythmakers & Lawbreakers (2009).

Warning for misogynistic slurs and child abuse.


From the second issue of the DC limited series (Oct. 1988). Originally published in B&W in Warrior #5-8 (Sept.-Dec. 1982).
9 pages of 28.













Finch and Dominic try to question the still-insane Prothero, who keeps on saying nothing but "Ma-ma"... until at last he mutters "Five... five... Room Five," thus giving them another clue.

Back in the Shadow Gallery, Evey notices the inscription "V. V. V. V. V." and asks V what it stands for.







Here, unfortunately, I had to leave out rather a bit. At Westminster Abbey, the Norsefire ministry heads and their spouses attend Mass, where Fate is equated with the Trinity. Outside the church we meet two seemingly minor characters who'll become crucial later on: Helen Heyer, sarcastic wife of the Eye (video surveillance) head Conrad; and Rosemary Almond, meek wife of the abusive Finger (secret police) head Derek.

Next, we meet Bishop of Westminster Anthony Lilliman, a not-so-secret (but tolerated) pedophile. Although initially disappointed to hear this week's girl sent from "the agency" is fifteen, he relents when he sees her in person. In fact, the "agency girl" is Evey, who opens a bedroom window for V, then stalls Lilliman by having him read her that day's sermon as V swashbuckles his way over. When at last the Bishop tries to undress her, she clocks him with a lamp.





Employees at the Ear (audio surveillance) hear V talking with Lilliman, but by the time the Fingermen get to the Abbey they're too late to save him. Later, at the crime scene, Finch and Dominic review the audio recording, which V had partially obscured to conceal his identity.





V silently kills Dennis, then puts the music back on.







Back in his own ministry, the Nose, Finch hands forensic pathologist Delia Surridge yet another violet carson rose that V had left at the murder scene. Surridge, visibly disturbed to see the rose, promises to research it. As Finch turns his back and leaves, she stares at the flower and clutches her neck in dread.

Edited to add: Given the very helpful fact-checking of the comic's, and Moore's own, claims in the comments below, I should add one of my own. According to the comic, Anglican doctrine, in line with that of Roman Catholicism, holds that the communion host becomes the actual body of Christ when consumed. In fact, while many High Church or Anglo-Catholic Anglicans do pretty much believe this (and the Bishop of Westminster would presumably be High Church), among Low Church Anglicans there are differing views. Some hold a "memorialist" view of the Eucharist, i.e. that its purpose is to commemorate the Last Supper and Christ's subsequent suffering. Others believe in the "real presence of Christ in the Eucharist" but not in a bodily sense, and not localized in the host.

Date: 2018-01-24 04:26 am (UTC)
commodus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] commodus
I'm probably in the minority, but I much preferred the movie version. I don't know, I just think the story works better in that simplified format, rather than feeling more like a pulpit for Alan Moore's politics. But then, I also preferred the movie of From Hell to the comic, so maybe it's just Moore's work in general I dislike?

Date: 2018-01-24 07:27 am (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
For the record, "religion" does not come from re-ligare, reconnect. That analysis was proposed by the Christians…

Hoc uinculo pietatis obsticti deo, & religati ſumus. Unde ipſa religio nomen accepit, nõ ut Cicero interpretatus eſt, a relegēdo, qui in libro
De Natura Deorum secũdo dicitita.

"It is this link of piety which bounds us to God, reconnecting us. Thus the word "religion"—and not, as Cicero wants it, from relegēdo, re-reading, as stated in his book De Natura Deorum. (Lactantius)


…But Cicero was right; it's ultimately from h2leg, "read".

Lactantius' argument was influential enough (among fellow Christians at least) that the analysis religion=reconnection, though historically wrong, is culturally important on its own. However, contra Moore, even those who believed the religāre theory didn't say religion reconnected us together in a single belief, but rather that it reconnected each individual to god.
Edited Date: 2018-01-24 07:34 am (UTC)

Date: 2018-01-24 02:24 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
I get what Moore was intending, but the statement that the Romans invented Fascism is just false, and I'm pretty sure he knows it. He means in a more general sense, but Rome was a Republic, not a fascist state, even when it was more of a dictatorship or plutocracy. Bennito Mussolini invented Fascism...he LITERALLY WROTE THE BOOK. Fascism isn't just Total Order. He's only looking at it from the perspective of personal liberties.

What's interesting is that some people don't get that V is not the hero of the piece, the police officer is. V does some heroic things, but he also does some monstrous things, too. He has gazed in the abyss too long (or rather was forced to). They government made him, and now he's the blade that turned in their hand.

Date: 2018-01-25 07:36 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
I think (hope?) it's rather apparent that V is not the hero of *this* story. Though I can understand why someone whose perception of comic-V is colored by movie-V might think otherwise.
Edited Date: 2018-01-25 07:37 am (UTC)

Date: 2018-01-25 08:07 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shadur
Heck, even V knows they're not the hero of the story. And that knowledge informs pretty much everything V does.

That's what made a re-read of this series so interesting to me after it sunk in.

Date: 2018-01-25 07:49 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
As to the edit: the debate between transubstatiation vs consubstantiation was a big part of the Protestant Reformation. Literal wars were fought over this difference in doctrine (among other trivialities). Gulliver's Travels parodies this absurd war basis by having the Lilliputians fighting over the side on which one should crack an egg. Which becomes less silly when one realizes that lots of people died IRL because of an equally stupid reason.

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