Date: 2018-01-24 08:19 pm (UTC)
jetpack_monkey: (Default)
From: [personal profile] jetpack_monkey
Sure, great, new Silver Swan.

But it's now canon that Diana knows how to play Dungeons and Dragons.

Date: 2018-01-24 08:56 pm (UTC)
lucean: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucean
I actually dig the concept of this new origin for Silver Swan and think there is a lot that could be done with it. However, it feels like it has the same Robinson flaw as his whole run, as he just rushes through things. The amount of stuff he does in this single issue is nuts and I think it would a lot of better if he allowed the character origin to breathe a bit.

Date: 2018-01-24 09:02 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Goddamnit.

What do writers have against letting Diana have positive and supportive female characters in her cast??? It seems like every other week the Amazons go psycho, Hyppolita goes Wicked Stepmother, Donna goes who-the-hell-even-knows, Cassandra goes MIA, Etta barely gets a mention, Barbara Minerva goes between noble rival and pure evil like a yo-yo, and now Julia Kapatelis is dead and Vanessa is a child-killer.

Why? I don't see DC publishing story after story where Alfred murders innocent people, Nightwing tries to kill Batman, Robin disappears and Gordon becomes a corrupt cop. The tiny handful of stories where his allies "go bad", like Under The Red Hood and those Damian stories where he almost joins a bad guy, always make sure they don't cross a truly bad line (they most certainly don't chop up children). Even the stories that are Elseworld, and therefore "safe," make sure to keep them sympathetic and ultimately remorseful.

But Diana? Fuck that, it's a day that ends in y, let's have her basically adoptive little sister massacre a whole family because she is jealous that Diana has been too bysy with saving the world for a few months to come visit.

Date: 2018-01-24 09:08 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Btw, I know that the Silver Swan was already a villain. But the point is that, like Jason Todd, she was redeemed and went back to being a family member. How the hell is Vanessa here going to go back from chopping up a baby?! And Julia is dead.

Date: 2018-01-25 06:29 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jeremyp
I agree. I also get tired of seeing everyone that goes through trauma becoming murderers. Lots of people quietly work through their issues without killing anyone. It's a big jump to go from being depressed to committing mass murder.

In terms of redeeming Silver Swan, they can always blame the nanites - they got infected by Ares/Darkseid/DrPsycho/Previously Unknown Villian, etc. That would be motivation for her to become a hero to make up for what she did while under their control.

Date: 2018-01-25 10:27 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Nanites could work. Won't bring Julia back, but they could salvage Vanessa.

Date: 2018-01-24 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
I think, and this is just guessing, but I think the reason (such as it is) is that because Diana, her villains and her supporting cast are not as "iconic" (*spit*) as Batman or Superman and their lot, the writers have a free-er reign to do what they like, since comparatively fewer people are going to be up in arms if Wonder Woman's supporting cast get mistreated or ignored than they would if it was Bats or Supes.
(At least, fewer people that matter in DC's eyes. Gotta keep the precious bat-dollars rolling in.)

And when comic book writers are given a free reign, the usual result is murder and / or death, rather than attempting to build anything.

Date: 2018-01-24 11:05 pm (UTC)
flint_marko: (Default)
From: [personal profile] flint_marko
Not crazy about the story, but do we know if the baby is dead?

Date: 2018-01-25 10:21 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Fair point, the baby might not be dead, we'll have to see the next issue to make sure.

Even if we assume the baby is still alive, though?

Jason Todd was considered irredeemable by a large subset of Fandom and even writers because he killed a bunch of criminals after a dip in the Lazarus Pit made him extra angry about the fact that Batman never put down the man who beat him to death even after said man also paralized Barbara, killed Gordon's wife, single-handedly filled whole graveyards, and showed that no prison could ever hold him. Jason exclusively went after criminals and had a freudian excuse that most people actually agree with in addition to magic that canonically messes with people's heads, yet that still was almost enough for many readers to write him off.

Vanessa here has murdered innocent civilians, a young couple with a now orphaned baby, because she was jealous that, for a few months, Wonder Woman prioritized saving countless lives over dropping by for a visit.

Short of going the route jeremyp suggested, as in actual mind-control, I can't see a way of saving her character now. And that still wouldn't bring Julia back, which is a damn shame because Julia was a historical character and one of the very first in Diana's supporting cast.

Date: 2018-01-24 11:17 pm (UTC)
shakalooloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shakalooloo
So the Silver Swan is now Electro from 'Amazing Spider-Man 2'? Not the best inspiration to use for an origin story, there!

Date: 2018-01-25 01:42 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Okay, so they wanted a new Silver Swan, fair enough, no problem, and they've gone the fangirl turned stalker due to feeling slighted origin, which is... unfortunate.

But why the hell waste the name of the Kapatellis family for this throwaway stuff? Julia and Vanessa were pivotal to the Perez Wonder Woman story arc, as long time friends, teachers, inspiration and all those fine things. Now it's intro, dead mom, insane kid inside an issue or two.

I know that Vanessa also became a second Silver Swan in the Jimenez run, and it wasn't a great story there, but at least acknowledged the horror that one of Diana's old friends turning to the dark side like this, this just feels ramrodded into the story

Date: 2018-01-25 11:31 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] lego_joker
Unfortunately, I think I know the answer to that.

The Kapatelises aren't known to the general writer as long-running members of Diana's supporting cast, because as far as the general writer is concerned, Diana has no long-running supporting cast outside of Steve and maybe Etta (movies do a lot to codify these things). If Vanessa gets depicted in any Wonder Woman reference-book, it's always as Silver Swan II (Julia's lucky to get a throwaway mention). Even the DC fan-wiki is guilty of this.

Writers who personally admired Perez (mostly thinking of Jimenez - and to a lesser degree Byrne) might be persuaded to give a damn about Vanessa, but as far as I can tell Robinson isn't one of them.

Date: 2018-01-25 09:24 pm (UTC)
ficticons: (babs pft)
From: [personal profile] ficticons
Never have I gone faster from :D to YES to D: D: WTF NO F NO as I got through a set of scans.

And to think I was just rereading an old post about Nessie-as-Silver-Swan just yesterday and thinking something along the lines of "ah well, one good thing about the new continuity is that we can maybe get her back without this drama".

Dammit all, DC.

Date: 2018-01-25 11:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] lego_joker
Two things I like about this:

1.) The Swan debuts as a superhero daydream. I always thought both the moniker and the general costume (especially Valerie's) made more sense for a hero - or at least a pretend hero - than an outright terrorist/extortionist.

2.) That being said, the swan-suit here is the first one I find genuinely intimidating. And hey, at least it comes with pants!

Everything else? Bullshit in a cup.
Edited Date: 2018-01-25 11:40 pm (UTC)

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