Date: 2018-01-25 03:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
Knowing what comes next it is hard to comment on the middle part of a trilogy without spoilers, but I will say I really loathe Getaway. I don't think I've ever hated a Transformers villain more than Getaway (other than whoever decided to smoosh Visionaries and Gastro Intestinal Joe into the TF comics, but that is a meta-bad guy), he is just the worst. And he keeps on getting worse.

Date: 2018-01-25 03:55 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Lora, crafting. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
In terms of Visionaries and Transformers antagonists, Merklynn and Virulina're right up there with Getaway - " It's all about me, by which I mean it's all about my cause, by which I mean it's all about me. "

Date: 2018-01-25 04:40 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
Well I currently hate Virulina (and Ironhide) for a very specific reason, but apart from that it just is not as fierce as my hate for Getaway (there is too much generic dislike for the V&Joe characters for just existing in my TF stories getting in the way). For some reason that character has really hit all my buttons, which is probably the intent and just darn good writing.

Date: 2018-01-25 05:46 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
I would say if the most deplorable and repulsive character (in a casts of mass murderers) is an audience stand-in of the people who thought it's kinda shitty you gave your intentional Hitler analogue redemption arc, is pretty shitty writing.

Seriously, this straight up pisses me off. This guy spent years drawing comparisons between Decepticons and Nazi Germany to make his comic about robots who turn into cars edgy, then gives their leader a redemption arc and happy ending, has the guy pointing out "he was kind of a dick" mocked as simple minded dummy and the one guy opposing space Hitler a neo-nazi quasi-sexual predator.

Why are people eating this up? Could you imagine if DS9 had Dukat "sacrifice" himself fighting the Dominion and then had Sisko and all give him tearful eulogy and laugh what a dumb jerk Kira is for "not understanding shades of grey" (in better case)?

Date: 2018-01-25 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
The thing that separates Megatron from Dukat as sincerity. I mean, I know it is comics and all and that probably won't stick (although I hope it does), but we saw the process Megatron was going through to be better. Nobody condoned what he did, but but we saw a process of him owning his crimes and going from self serving excuse to save his hide to genuinely trying to atone. I don't think stranding him in an alternate dimension, where he has to fight back against evil the hard way through words, hearts, and minds, instead of shooting people in the face with his arm cannon as getting off easy. Dukat remained a self serving, egomaniacal, fraud right to the end.

Also if Getaway had not been into mind rape and using others as patsies for his revenge then I'd have had an easier time being sympathetic. Megatron did horrible, terrible things, during his time. And if Getaway had stuck to that line and worked more openly and even walked off the LL in protest, then he'd be in the right. He didn't do that. He wanted to be on the LL because of his own ego, and he was willing to do horrible things in the name of revenge just to preserve what he thought his ego was due. Now if we get an arc where we start seeing Getaway learning to own his crimes, start atoning, etc, then I'll cut him the same slack as Megatron got. Right now, though, Getaway is in the Dukat camp.

Date: 2018-01-25 06:56 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] strejdaking
That's the point. Because the show wasn't stupid, it wasn't trying to to both examine the horrors of genocidal occupation and giving redemption arc to lizard Heydrich.

I never said Getaway was sympathetic, my problem is the exact opposite. I said the fact Roberts had Megatron's enemies/critics of his writing represented as either irrational whiners or disgusting hypocritical monsters. Yes, Getaway is shown to be utter bastard and that's the problem.

BTW, I know I responded directly to you and I'm sorry if it came of as hostility on my part towards you. I don't have a problem with you or how you experience his work, I have problem with Roberts and admittedly the fandom's attitude, but I'm not angry at you for anything. It's just a dumb comic.

Date: 2018-01-25 11:36 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
What Getaway said in issue 50 is absolutely right. The people he tricked into following him were right to have those concerns. The problem was, he was only saying it to use better people. People that included members of the regular cast. First Aid and Riptide aren't horrible people for having a problem with Megatron. If anything, the problem is good people being used by a monster... which is how the Transformers ended up in this mess to begind with.

Date: 2018-01-26 10:00 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
I'll admit I haven't been following this comic post-Megatron's departure, and my knowledge of it comes from second-hand accounts, so I may be wrong here. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't those people only follow Getaway because he lied to them, telling them that he would get Megatron off the ship but wouldn't actually harm him? Meaning that his speech about people who commit genocide on an intergalactic scale not deserving forgiveness was not something the narratively-approved good characters actually agree with, that they only went along with the plan because they were under the impression that Megatron would be left alone safe and sound?

The narrative does treat anybody who doesn't go incredibly easy on Megatron as evil or, at best, irrationally and stubbornly self-destroying. First Aid supposedly has a problem with Megatron, but he was shocked and appalled when Mirage suggested that the Autobots should have just executed him as a war criminal instead of going to extreme lengths to give him a chance to fix his legacy. Mirage goes on to claim that his is not a controversial opinion, yet Getaway still had to lie and say that Megatron would not be harmed to get the crew on his side, so clearly it is controversial.

And nobody seems to resent Optimus for putting the whole crew in extreme danger by lying to them about the fact that the Fool's Energon was fake and Megatron was not actually weakened. Rodimus originally outright refused to have anything to do with Megatron, and certainly didn't want to share the ship that legally belonged to him with the guy, but Optimus persuaded him by telling him that a poisoned Megatron would be easy to subdue. If Megatron's change of heart had been a bluff (and Megatron does have a long and extensive history of deceit. Not only did the War start when Megatron tricked Orion Pax into joining forces with the Decepticons and then shot him in the back, but the Surge was also caused by Megatron's plan to get Starscream to trick Sunstreaker, and also the Deceptigod came to be when Megatron tricked the Autobots into thinking that he had surrendered), the crew of the LL would have met the same fate as their duplicates on the second LL. In First Strike, Optimus openly admits that he "risked everything [for Megatron's sake]," and that's framed as the morally decent thing to do.

It is messed up. And I say this as a Megatron fan who actually doesn't want him to die.

Date: 2018-01-26 10:51 am (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Really? Thank you for your correction. I had my facts wrong, then.

But then, why was First Aid so opposed to the very idea of Megatron being killed? Surely, if he agreed to the plan of delivering him to the GC, he would have known that he would likely be executed, right?

Date: 2018-01-26 12:12 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
Yeah, there was a misunderstanding, I did mean that Getaway lied to the crew while he was recruiting them. And I do think that is one of the reasons that the narrative wants us to think that Getaway's point was not really a legit one, even if the crew still went along with him after the truth came out.

Here is the thing. One of Getaway's MO is that he coerces/tricks/manipulates people to do terrible things so that they then feel that they have already gone too far, can't pull back anymore and must continue even if they don't want to. It's a classic abuse technique. Getaway recruiting the crew by promising them that Megatron will not be harmed, then revealing that he got the GC involved only when it's already too late for the crew to do anything about it, follows that exact procedure. Otherwise he would have just told them the truth to begin with. That's my take on the situation.

Date: 2018-01-26 12:59 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
Basically, the timeline of events goes like this.

After the Lost Light sets off following the events of Dark Cybertron, Getaway starts turning the crew to his side. He approaches them privately, asking them about their concerns with Megatron and his position as co-captain. Those who are receptive to this question, which is a lot of the crew, (because let's be honest, Megatron as co-captain is still freaking bizarre) are slowly groomed to believe that Megs has already subverted the rest of the command staff to his side. Any time the script doesn't go the way Getaway wants it to, he uses the nudge gun to wipe his targets memory of the conversation and tries again later as needed. Elements of the bridge crew are let into the narrative of 'if anything happens to me, it's because Megatron's worked out I'm onto him, and I'm depending on you.'

At some point during all this, Getaway makes contact with some of his old allies in the Galactic Council, hoping to arrange things so that when he gets Megatron off the ship, they can move in and deal with him. In the short term, the GC actually has little interest in this. If he's wandering the galaxy but not attacking organic worlds, they can use him as a boogeyman to encourage various worlds to keep paying their taxes/protection fees.

Tailgate, through heavy use of grooming and some memory wipes by Getaway, is tricked into trying to use a set of Mnemosurgeon needles on Megatron, believing they were set up to 'remove Megatrons evil impulses'. Because Tailgate's a gullible little kid a lot of the time. The real plan there was for Megatron to wake up, panic at the realization he was about to get needled and kill Tailgate in self defense. At which point the ships security teams would kill Megatron, because how could they not? This fell apart because Whirl, who Getaway had recruited for earlier attempts to encourage Megatron into attacking a crew member, had problems with letting Tailgate be the sacrificial bot for all this. Getaway was exposed and locked up for several months, but the bulk of the crew weren't told the full story, so those he'd already recruited came to the conclusion that Something Was Wrong And They Needed To Do Something.

The Lost Light, being full of heroic types, continue on their way, helping out people in trouble in the process. After they help a few organic worlds, the Galactic Council takes notes, and decide that it's time to deal with the problem before their anti-transformer PR takes a hit.

The DJD attack Necroworld, kill the Necrobot, and create a distress signal designed to get the Lost Light's attention. Rodimus and co leave the ship to look into this, at which point the mutineers bust out Getaway. He tells the GC where to find Megatron, then goes up to the bridge to contact Rodimus and co.

And this is where Getaway makes his first major mistake of the mutiny. It's something we saw back when he decided Whirl was a liability. He LOVES to gloat. He needs to gloat, to rub it in his victims face just how much he's played them. So when he's gloating over the radio to Rodimus and co, he mentions the nudge gun and how he was using it. Everyone else on the bridge blinks at this, because this is one detail that they didn't know about. Mind-wiping fellow Autobots is something of a WTF moment. So that first bit of doubt sneaks in.

Then, just before the call ends, Megatron asks Getaway for mercy. Not for him, but for the others. Getaway ends the call, but naturally the others ask what he meant by that, forcing him to reveal that he'd made a deal with the Council. None of them are pleased by this, but he claims that of course he arranged for them to only go after Megatron, because he'd never put another Autobot in harms way like that.

He then privately calls the GC to try and get them to not kill the Autobots, because of course he didn't give enough of a damn about anyone else to make that arrangement. Since they don't need him anymore, they hang up on him.

At this point, Getaway's only concern there is really only that the GC could kill the bots with Megatron, and even then it's only really a problem if the LL's remaining find out about it. He has no idea the DJD are even involved with this mess. And that's the big flaw in his plan. He thinks he's got it all under control, that he can play everyone. And then, as we saw above, that message from Rodimus comes in, and he panics.

Date: 2018-01-26 01:45 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
I appreciate you taking the time to write a summary (really, I do! Thank you :). It's always good to refresh your memory). But I read nearly all of those stories, if begrudgingly so. I only dropped MTMTE after Megatron left the ship. And that confirms that the crew originally assumed that Megatron would just be dropped off the ship with no further punishment or harm.

Date: 2018-01-26 01:49 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
thing is Megatron's private moments, of which he's had many, makes him seem pretty sincere.

I am honestly expecting that next time we see the Functionist Universe it will have gone full Shattered Glass, with Orion Pax wanting to kill everything to do with the Functionist Council and anyone who benefited from them and Megatron leading a force to stop them

Date: 2018-01-25 04:52 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I confess I've been nervous about getting into Visionaries at all because I loved the concept and the old cartoon and toy line and want to give the new one a try, but I've yet to see a positive comment about them.

Date: 2018-01-25 06:43 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
I liked the idea of bringing back Visionaries too, but the execution... They picked the wrong way to do it. All it did was end up dragging the Transformers comics down instead. Should have had the planet of the Visionaries not be inside Cybertron, for a start. Hell, they could genuinely have had it tie into Lost Light in an unforced way given that they are all boldly going out there. That would have genuinely expanded the Bro verse. Instead... Nah. Sucks.

Date: 2018-01-29 10:21 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
There's an interesting interview with the writer, Magdalena Visaggio, on the recent TF Podcast, Moonbase 2, where she goes into some of the details about the choices made, and some of the choices forced upon her. (like the departure of one character in the first issue, which was editorially mandated), and the fandom reaction (from both diehard Visionaries fans and TF fans).

Date: 2018-01-26 01:54 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
part of the problem I had is the way MASK was introduced. Well meaning people lied to by those in power have to break away and fight the real enemy(basic rough summary). That comic flopped. And they decided to introduce the Visionaries in what amounts to the same plot. Unless they're all going to remain enemies of the TFs but then what the hell is the point?

Date: 2018-01-26 02:26 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Thing is that the Visionaries and the Transformers should have plenty to fight about, but almost no common ground on which to do it.

The Visionaries have their powers because something about their solar system causes periodic shifts in the laws of physics, sometimes tech works, sometimes magic works, and never the twain shall meet (I could see it being a magical spell that was cast wizards not wanting to see their power base destroyed by mundane human ingenuity, but whose effectiveness ebbs and flows over centuries at a time)

Transformers shouldn't function on "Magic phase" Prysmos, and the Visionaries magic powers shouldn't work anywhere else... with the possible exception of Maximal/Predacons Transformers who have an organic shell that _might_ serve as some sort of defence provided they stay in Beast Mode.

Date: 2018-01-26 09:03 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
The current Onyx Prime arc in the main TF comics makes it seem like they are going with your postulated Maximal/Predacon thing interacting with Visionaries, only they may be going with the reformatting of Cybertron entirely to achieve this.

Date: 2018-01-27 02:25 am (UTC)
bj_l: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bj_l
REVOLUTION and all that came from it is the worst thing IDW have ever done with the Transformers.

Date: 2018-01-27 02:06 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] owlbrigade1
Can't argue with that. What were they thinking?

Date: 2018-01-25 04:57 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: Soundwave Matt Moylan Lilformers (Soundwave)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
I like Rodimus recommendation for the bounty hu.... "freelance peacekeeping agent" job.

Wonder who THAT could possibly be, yes?

Date: 2018-01-25 06:42 pm (UTC)
featheredserpent: (BatComputer)
From: [personal profile] featheredserpent
I came here to post this.

Date: 2018-01-25 07:48 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Y'know, despite there being a lot to grumble about with this arc, I think the thing that aggravates me is actually...
Suddenly, out of nowhere, it turns out there's this big cheat that would allow the Lost Light to get to where they want to go, which Tyrest supposedly knew about which has never been mentioned before.

Because, and call me mad if you must, I held out some slim, faint hope that at some point a comic ostensibly about a questing might, just for fucking once, have some damn questing in it.

Nope! All into the magic space portal!
It's just so damn lazy...

Date: 2018-01-25 10:32 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] matrix_dragon
It's fascinating to see how quickly Getaway lost control of the situation here. He plays people, he manipulates them, he'll say whatever he has to to make them go along with it (Which was why he said that bit about Megatron, back in MTMTE #50. The bulk of the crew agreed with that valid point, and he was just using them). But once he's got what he wanted, once he's in the position of authority, and the flaws in his logic start to appear, it falls apart damn fast.

Date: 2018-01-26 12:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daningram.insanejournal.com
Yeah, Getaway is good on a one on one level, but get people together and his shallowness becomes obvious.

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