Date: 2018-01-31 04:22 pm (UTC)
leoboiko: manga-style picture of a female-identified person with long hair, face not drawn, putting on a Japanese fox-spirit max (Default)
From: [personal profile] leoboiko
I'd "yes" the heck out of that offer. Who cares if some evil god decided we're "supposed to" feel pain and loss? Pain, loss and mortality are overrated.

Date: 2018-01-31 05:23 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
I agree 110%.....but for the sake of Jean as a viable character moving forward this is a good move.

Also I agree that the idea that pain, loss, and mortality are necessary is utter abhorrent. People don't need pain, loss, and the fear of death to grow and thrive. If anything all the evidence is in the opposite direction. Pain, loss, and fear are the main reason people shrink.

Date: 2018-01-31 10:07 pm (UTC)
lizard_of_aus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lizard_of_aus
On the other hand, the absence of pain, loss and fear causes certain to stagnate, or worse, turn self absorbed and callous.

I think this is one of those things where there's no good answer. Senseless trauma can ruin people for good, but sometimes you have to go through hell to appreciate heaven.

Date: 2018-01-31 04:39 pm (UTC)
beyondthefringe: (Default)
From: [personal profile] beyondthefringe
So Jean pulls the "it's not you, it's me, time to move on..." on the Phoenix entity.
It's about time they moved past that relationship. :)

Date: 2018-01-31 05:05 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] xakko
I think I like this Jean and what it might mean for her. I hate this Phoenix and everything done to it over the last decade or more.

Date: 2018-01-31 05:12 pm (UTC)
rfmcdonald: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rfmcdonald
I like this. Moving on to an entirely new stage of relationship with the Phoenix works for Jean, is necessary for her development beyond that old trope.

Date: 2018-01-31 05:43 pm (UTC)
mizerous: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mizerous
Is Marvel speaking through Jean about the Phoenix?

Date: 2018-01-31 05:50 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Grant Morrison Jean was the "best" Jean? Seriously?!

Date: 2018-02-01 10:28 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
I took "best self" to mean the version of Jean with the most personal integrity, not the most accomplished. But I see your point.

It's possible my dislike of the Grant Morrison run is coloring my perception here.

Date: 2018-01-31 07:18 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: (ask the questions)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
why couldn't they just find an equilibrium. with all the gods and immortals and resurrections, why they hell couldn't Jean help the phoenix recognize humanity, and why can't the phoenix help Jean be her best self?

Date: 2018-02-06 02:21 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Well, you know, something something women and power!

Date: 2018-01-31 10:45 pm (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
Thank god Jean get back to normal;

Is she gonna remember everyone? I hope she can be friends with Betsy and Ororo again. :)

I am worried how she'll deal with Emma Frost.

Date: 2018-02-01 12:41 am (UTC)
dragontail: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragontail
So much of what I feel the X-Men are about has been lost over the past few decades. Stripped away. So many of the characters I consider to be the X-Men have been diminished over that same period. Eroded away. I look at the X-books now and, from my perspective, I see a box of much-loved and yet horribly broken toys that I can barely bring myself to acknowledge, because it hurts to do so.

And then I read these pages, and they're beautiful. Just beautiful. A perfect capstone to years and years of Jean/Phoenix stories good and bad, an encapsulation of all of them - their ties as well as their contradictions, their great moments as well as their failures. And more: it's reframed them in the context of an unhealthy relationship, and a woman's personal journey. Because Jean was so young when that space shuttle started crashing. And who hasn't made bad decisions... asked the wrong person for help... when they're young? The fortunate among us walk away having learned something and without a lingering connection... or worse, a debt. Jean wasn't so fortunate.

It's a cosmic, continuing-using (not continuity-beholden-to) resolution that truly resurrects Jean, not in the in-universe sense but in the viable character sense, while finally (thankfully) shifting the Phoenix off the table forevermore (I hope), and I love it.

Breaks my heart to say this, given how badly I want the proper version of the character back, but given the role he played all this - and how perfect his moment was, too - and despite how much he deserves being fixed in the same manner, I hope Scott remains off the table, too. Because Jean deserves to move forward.

Date: 2018-02-01 05:40 am (UTC)
lbd_nytetrayn: Star Force Dragonzord Power! (Default)
From: [personal profile] lbd_nytetrayn
Out of curiosity, much as I dig the idea of Jean moving past the Phoenix, am I the only one who really doesn't think this will stick?

Date: 2018-02-01 12:08 pm (UTC)
liliaeth: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liliaeth
I hope it does, I really do, but I don't dare trust Marvel.

Date: 2018-02-01 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] wtfomfg2
Not a chance. Jean Grey has been associated with the Phoenix for over 4 decades, and virtually every one of her more memorable arcs involve some aspect of the Phoenix in some way or another. Combine that with the fact that the second Dark Phoenix movie is coming out soon (and you just know there will be a third once the X-men join the MCU), and I would say that Jean will never really be separated from the Phoenix for too long.

I know a lot of people are sick of the Phoenix lately, especially with how frequently and poorly it’s been written the last 5-10 years, but this honestly feels like a step back/pause for the haracter for me. We’ll probably get a few more years of stories of regular Jean Grey (a la X-Factor and most of the 90s) before someone does another “big” Phoenix returns story. I wish they would have taken this opportunity to have a strong writer come in and try to really flesh out and streamline what the Phoenix is and how it connects to Jean instead of this whole “we still don’t know what you are but you’re gone for now” resolution, because you know it’s not going to stick.

Date: 2018-02-06 02:31 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
I basically agree, but Marvel has been terrible with marketing synergy tho -- none of the ongoing comics match up with the movies when they come out, the tie-in comics are always ugly and often are just rehashes of the latest movie, and they just cancelled the Netflix series-related books except Daredevil and Iron Fist (well, Jessica Jones is "on hold" while they get another creative team together, but whatever). They did have Black Bolt and Royals concurrently running with the Inhumans show, but that was a terrible flop and now both those books are cancelled. And right when the Civil War movie came out, the comics were doing Civil War 2 which was a huge mess. It's very weird. I know the comics and movies divisions hate each other but you'd think they'd be able to join together in the prospect of making potloads of money.

Date: 2018-02-06 02:25 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
It seems like they really want to separate out the Phoenix and Jean as characters for now (and....make Phoenix a BC-era Avenger?) and I agree that'll be the status quo for a while, but it probably won't stick. Phoenix is seen as Jean's main story, it's like Black Widow and the Red Room. Some new takes would be good.

Date: 2018-02-02 11:39 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
this... weirdly personal relationship with the Phoenix force is odd, like it's motivations do not seem to be involved in any grand scheme other than it being in love (?) with Jean. Which... is disappointing.

But her moving on is cool.

Date: 2018-02-03 03:19 pm (UTC)
dewinged: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dewinged
And all those appearances of dead X-characters was just a tease by the writers, and they couldn't just bring them all back.

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