starwolf_oakley: (Default)
[personal profile] starwolf_oakley posting in [community profile] scans_daily
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Gemma Chan is set to play Minn-Erva, or Dr. Minerva, in the Captain Marvel movie. So here is an appearance of Dr. Minerva from AVENGERS #347, the conclusion to "Operation: Galactic Storm."



At the end of a massive Avengers crossover, the Nega-Bomb has detonated, destroying most of Hala, the homeworld of the Kree Empire. Captain America and Deathbird survived, somehow. They confront the Supreme Intelligence.

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The rest of the Avengers land on the ravaged Hala. They are stunned by all the dead. It should be noted that Goliath here is Clint Barton, not Hank Pym.

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Does comic book evolution work that way? Really?

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This being a comic book, they teleported away instead of blowing up. They next appeared in SILVER SURFER #79.

Here are the pages when half the Avengers decide to kill the Supreme Intelligence.

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AVENGERS FOREVER revealed Immortus was influencing Iron Man's mind to a degree. Also the "CIVIL WAR: CASUALTIES OF WAR" one-shot had this as an example of "What Tony wants is more important than anything else."

The site supermegamonkey.net explains the split quite well.
I think the breakdown on the kill decision makes sense. Wonder Man is the biggest question mark in my mind, but he just got through trying to stop the Vision from letting the bomb go off and now he's just angry. Thor is probably the most complex, but Tom DeFalco did explicitly show that he is more violent than the real Thor AND he's the one that shows the most doubt about all of this; he's relying heavily on the fact that the Supreme Intelligence is an artificial construct, not a real life. None of the characters on the "don't kill" side surprise me. I might have expected Hawkeye to be more vocal or even get physical in trying to stop the others (since he felt very strongly about this when he was leader of the West Coast team), but i kind of like the "manoman" line, as if he's too shellshocked to react.

Also, there's a difference between WANTING to kill/deactivate the Supreme Intelligence for his actions and actually DOING it.


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The issue ends with the Supreme Intelligence still "alive," having tricked the Avengers. Actually, the Kree still show up as powerful bad guys. Has that ever been explained?

Presumably, Dr. Minerva will appear in MS. MARVEL or CAPTAIN MARVEL before the Brie Larson Captain Marvel movie is released.

Date: 2018-02-28 07:26 pm (UTC)
lordultimus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lordultimus
Between this and the X-Men, I get the feeling that comics really don't get how evolution works.

Date: 2018-02-28 07:36 pm (UTC)
coldfury: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coldfury
I love how Quasar just casually offers to stop HALF THE AVENGERS. Including, arguably, its most powerful members aside from himself.

I mean, the kill line up is Wonder Man, Black Knight, Iron Man, Vision, Thor (Eric), Sersi, and Hercules.

Black Knight aside, that's one of the most powerful lineups of Avengers you could name. Quasar could probably go toe to toe with any of them individually, but together.. whoof.

All in all, this is a real gem of a dilemma. These days it almost seems quaint, as comics seem to have tossed aside the whole 'We don't kill, EVER' debate for a more pragmatic "We don't kill, unless we have to.' I doubt today's Cap, Crystal, Clint, Wanda, or Monica Rambeau (I can't remember her current name) would blink about killing someone to save lives. Hell I think Starfox was recently involved in a plot to kill his brother (Though when you're talking about Thanos the rules might change a bit). Heck, even the new Quasar is killing aliens left and right when they decide to have her show up.

But would any of them be up for a punitive slaying like this? You could probably still spin it as an interesting story today from that angle.

I do think this schism was buried a bit too easily in subsequent stories, and I know Galactic Storm was bit of a 90s bore that dragged on a bit, but this specific beat here is one of the most 'Avengers' plotlines I can think of, and it shines as probably the last really great moments before the Crossing, I think.
Edited Date: 2018-02-28 07:39 pm (UTC)

Date: 2018-02-28 10:28 pm (UTC)
dr_archeville: Doctor Arkeville (Default)
From: [personal profile] dr_archeville
Adding to the dilemma is whether or not the Supreme Intelligence is considered a "living" (sapient) being. IIRC, the SI is an amalgamation of the brains of the greatest Kree mind (generals, philosophers, and scientists), taken after they died (and so presumably after theirs souls departed to whatever afterlife awaited them). Does the SI possess a distinct and unique mind, or is it just a copy, a parody made up of hundreds (thousands? millions?) of dead Kree operating at super-fast speeds to appear super-intelligent? Does the SI have a soul?

And I do find it interesting that Vision was the first to comment on the SI's non-living status.

Date: 2018-02-28 11:11 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Spectrum. Monica's current name is Spectrum.

And it was kind of a thing in Ewing's Mighty Avengers that Monica can kill. And easily at that. She could crack the Earth in half if she tried.

And she hates it.



As far everyone else... these days characterisation largely consists of either how they act in the movies or whatever the hell the writer thinks it is this week.

And these days, a story like this would probably involve the Avengers getting into a massive, pointless brawl that breaks the team up yet again.

Date: 2018-03-01 12:35 am (UTC)
zylly: (Dr. Dinosaur Incognito)
From: [personal profile] zylly
Yeah, more and more, comics have adopted a more pragmatic approach to heroes killing, rather than the hard line in the sand it used to be, save for a few exceptions like Spider-Man or Batman.

Kind of sad, really.

Date: 2018-03-01 12:27 am (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
The split does make sense, by and large. Hercules and Sersi are from ancient cultures and are immortals not subject to conventional morality, Dane fought in medieval times, and the Vision was at his most emotionless here and probably did the cold equations of it.

Of course, this was also during the general period of time where they were trying to tell us that Cap had never killed anyone, ever, even in war.

Date: 2018-03-02 01:48 am (UTC)
zylly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zylly
Yep.

Though even I find it harder to "count" vampires.

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