laughing_tree: (Seaworth)
[personal profile] laughing_tree posting in [community profile] scans_daily

I wanted to be deconstructionary (As in, the world takes apart some common RPG tropes) while also reconstructionary (As in, creating a whole fantasy that is seductive and enchanting). I wanted character types that could be commentary on your cleric and paladin and the rest... while having the potential to operate by themselves as their own iconic sense. -- Kieron Gillen

Date: 2019-02-06 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
I just don’t think this is as clever as Gillen seems to think it is.

Date: 2019-02-06 04:33 pm (UTC)
dcbanacek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dcbanacek
Seems a more angsty version of Joel Rosenberg's "Guardians of the Flame" series.

Date: 2019-02-06 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] caivu
That's been my reaction to most of his work.

Date: 2019-02-07 09:12 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
Yeah, me too, but this one a little more so. Maybe because I know a bit more about RPGs than I do about the music theme

Date: 2019-02-07 01:46 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
It's not. In the interviews I've read, it sounds like he thinks these classes are all brilliant meta-commentaries. As opposed to, you know, classes. Mind control is sinister? We know, Kieron. Having a a fantasy world with a cyberpunk hacker junkie is brilliant as the sort of the thing an edgelordy teen in the early '90s might do, but the fact that this is an actual game makes it feel like this is meant to be taken seriously.

It might be that this is suffering from trying to do two things. As a roleplaying game, Die actually seems rather limiting, since it imposes specific personalities and relationships on the players, rather than letting them choose for themselves. The comic might work better if it felt more like someone's edgy homebrew.

Date: 2019-02-07 03:10 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] doodleboy
With the Dictator I think it's less about mind-control and more about storytelling. The idea of art and story being able to change people's minds and influence real-world actions as not always being a positive force. I mean Ash's job in the real world is advertising.

Honestly with Ash I'm guessing partway through we're going to find they're probably not the most reliable narrator in the story.

I do think the classes work in a character sense. Somebody noted that the reason Matt picked being a Grief Knight is to get over the death of his mother. Chuck's class works best if he treated the entire thing as a power-fantasy, which is how he treated the game in the real world. But indulging in the fantasy-genre in that way probably doesn't turn you into a great human being. One of the covers with Angela shows her with a robot dog, which I'm sure will lead to something about her relationship with death and her relationship with video-games.

Never really thought about how limiting the classes could be in an actual game though. They do all seem to have certain personality types baked-in.

Date: 2019-02-07 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
I don’t do a whole lot of role playing, but I’ve seen a few modern RPGs where the classes are a bit more limiting. He did say he was inspired by Night Witches, in which everyone plays a female WWII Russian fighter pilot, and the different playbooks restrict things like “who you write home to.”

I don’t know that any of them are THIS specific, though.

Date: 2019-02-07 06:14 pm (UTC)
malitia: (Default)
From: [personal profile] malitia
"As a roleplaying game, Die actually seems rather limiting, since it imposes specific personalities and relationships on the players, rather than letting them choose for themselves."

We'll see as according to some twitter comments shared with me (I'm not on twitter, the whole site creeps me out) he allegedly wrote the game and plans to release the PDF when the first trade comes out.

Date: 2019-02-08 11:27 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Can confirm this- he talks about it in the backmatter of the first couple issues.

Date: 2019-02-07 08:00 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
For the most part, you can be a rogue who steals for fun, for profit, because the entire race has a different view on the subject of ownership, for survival, doesn’t steal at all, etc. In this, you steal because you’re a junkie

Date: 2019-02-08 01:09 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] arilou_skiff
Some people on has been discussing this, and basically...

The thing is, this isn't a D&D pastische: It's a pastische of a particular kind of person's "fantasy heartbreaker", created in the 90's, just when White Wolf was getting big.

All the kludgey mechanics, the weird insistences on how the game is supposed to be played etc. makes perfect sense in that particular context (a context I am fairly certain Gillen either experienced or at least had a front-row seat to)

Date: 2019-02-08 02:01 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] doodleboy
Gillen did title this story-arc "Fantasy Heartbreaker" so it's definitely deliberate (actually never knew what a Fantasy Heartbreaker was until somebody on twitter mentioned that the title was referencing something).

In terms of the mechanics of the actual real-world rulebook that's going to be released, you're playing a real-world person who is trapped in game much like the actual Die characters. So most of the character-building will be designing the motivations and backstory will be in the primary world rather then the secondary one.

Anyways if anybody is interested in what the actual game will be like, here's the article on it.

Date: 2019-02-08 02:10 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
The impression I get, though, is that it's only half '90s homebrew pastiche/deconstruction, while the other half is a very modern style. Ideas such as everyone getting their own die, or the Fool being able to physically modify his die, are great ideas - but really not ideas you'd expect to find in '90s. The trend toward rules-light gaming is a recent one, and drawing on a die would have been unthinkable before legacy games.

Of course, the actual game isn't even out yet, so I'm basing this entirely on Gillen's interviews, and could be wildly wrong. Grain of salt.

Date: 2019-02-06 06:44 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] doodleboy
Like how all the flashback sequences has a flatter rendering style. Like a saturday morning cartoon, the Grandmaster even looks like a saturday morning cartoon villain.

The Neo design is pretty cool.

Thank god Sol never stuck around in the real world long enough to play Dark Souls.

I honestly like most of the classes. Like they're different, but you can believe that these all can come from the mind of an edge-lord teenage fantasy-nerd. I guess the only unrealistic part is that none of the classes have game-breaking overpowered abilities.


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