(Anonymous) 2009-09-22 04:36 am (UTC)(link)
Did Dick and Rose ever mention or interact with each other after this arc besides that one page in Ttans East? Oh and while we're on the subject when is Dick going to hunt Slade down like a dog for dropping Chemo on his city and brainwashing Batgirl just to get revenge for losing Rose? I mean Green Arrow and Geo-Force have had reckonings with him and there is far less bad blood there.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 04:42 am (UTC)(link)
Someday, there will be a comic company that has a continuity department. Those that decide "I could have written the history better" will be thrown out a window.

Okay, but I can dream...

Re: Questions

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 05:00 am (UTC)(link)
It seems Dick would rather blame Cassandra for her own brainwashing than to do anything about Slade, the guy who killed almost all his Bludhaven friends and nuked the city. Bat-dickery has infected Dick himself.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 05:04 am (UTC)(link)
A "take" on the first meeting between Superman and Dick Grayson Robin was in LEGENDS OF THE DC UNIVERSE #6.

Re: Questions

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 05:06 am (UTC)(link)
Most of the Bat-writers would rather pretend Devin Grayson's NIGHTWING run never happened. Probably a "Bros Before Hoes" thing since she dated Mark Waid. I'm surprised we're getting Blockbuster for BLACKEST NIGHT.

Re: Questions

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 06:53 am (UTC)(link)
What's Devin's connection to Mark Waid, out of curiousity? It's the first I've heard of it.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 07:23 am (UTC)(link)
I love Nightwing/Superman. Not a fan of the whole 'alien' jazz though. "Dropping the fa├žade", Clark? Give me a break. You're just as human as the rest of us.

I'll never understand why some writers want to write Supes as a detached God figure.

Re: Questions

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 07:23 am (UTC)(link)
They dated.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 07:32 am (UTC)(link)

Originally, it was something of a mutual decision for Dick not to be Batman's partner anymore, and that eventually led to him choosing Nightwing. Sure, Dick instigated it, being a little tired of being the post-and in the partnership, and figuring he was going to college now, he should be his own man. And Bruce never fired anyone.

But no, now Bruce has to be a royal fuck to everyone. Mutter mutter mumble mutter grumble.

Re: Questions

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 07:45 am (UTC)(link)
Uh, okay. I still don't get what the deal is here. Is it a bad thing she dated Waid?

Re: Questions

(Anonymous) 2009-09-22 07:48 am (UTC)(link)
Oh I agree with pretending though Blockbuster made a reference to his death in Blackest Night:Batman #2. Written by Tomasi whose practically on the opposite end of the writing spectrum from Grayson in my opinion. Still an epic duel with Deathstroke would be cool though there would have to mior to it than that.
There was that extra page in the Infinite Crisis trade where Nightwing, Robin, and Batman all fight Slade. It's been a while since I read it but I believe it has Bruce calling Slade out on abandoning his honor code. Then Dick mentions his family and Slade screams something to the effect of "because of you Grayson!"" At least that's how I remeber it.
ext_396558: (Default)

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 08:37 am (UTC)(link)
Nice that they reverse-engineered the original Nightwing costume's elements - such as the yellow wings - into the Kryptonian's design.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 08:47 am (UTC)(link)
And the sad part is that this is STILL the BETTER version of the "Bruce fires Dick" origin (As opposed to the infinitely more powerful "Dick resigns from the role to hand it on to Jason, while Poppa!Bat watches proudly"). The earlier version had Batman, essentially, hysterically forbidding him from being Robin again at the age of 18 after he's shot in the shoulder by the Joker (Because of course, Dick had never been injured as Robin, by anyone ever before when he was MUCH younger)

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 09:31 am (UTC)(link)
I like the

"Did his family ever recognize their mistake?"
"Does it matter?"
"I guess not"


I still think the "Nightwing goes to the dark side, honest" was so ill-concieved as to be fairly breathtaking in it's wrong-ness as an obvious fake-out. It might just about work for any character OTHER than Dick Grayson, but... on the other hand, I like the idea of Dick using the opportunity to redeem Rose from under her Dad's nose. (and agreed wholeheartedly on the general theme that Dick should really be hunting Slade down like a dog, to make him pay for the Bludhaven Chemo-ing)

I can't believe that even Devin Grayson didn't realise the implications of;

"My... employer"

"Ah, is that what you're calling him now?"

"Well, he likes me to call him 'Daddy', but don't tell Bruce, it makes his head hurt."

And whilst I can like Phil Hesters art, his Nightwing work seemed too.. static to suit Dick's style.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 10:21 am (UTC)(link)
I do like that Evil!Nightwing costume, though.

Maybe Jason should adopt it. Or Slade could, if anyone ever picks up this story thread again.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 11:55 am (UTC)(link)
I LOVE Nightwing:Y1 so very much.

Also, oh Devin, I usually like you, but when you suck, you really don't do it halfway.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 11:57 am (UTC)(link)
Damn! I can totally see Jason as Renegade. Suits him to a tee. Thanks for the plot bunny. *hops off happily with it*

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 12:01 pm (UTC)(link)
But that's why I love DC. A range of continuities to choose from, and it won't matter any way because they'll retcon it all in the next summer's ZOMG-TOTALLY-FINALLY-FINAL-LIKE-POST-MORTEM-FER-SRS-MMKAY Crisis anyway.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 01:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Actually I rather like that idea, though Jason is still lacking any proper motivation beyond "shafting Bat!Dad's schemes" so I'm not sure what his reason for doing it would be.

I think I still prefer Jason as the Red Hood he was when he first came back, it played nicely with his past links to Robin AND the Joker.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 02:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Dick's met Lois before, hasn't he? As Robin?

And I would love to be saved by Dick in a hooded sweatshirt and tennies. It makes me want to snuggle him.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 02:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Synchronized vanishing!

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 04:09 pm (UTC)(link)
I always thought it had something to do with ego.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 06:34 pm (UTC)(link)
I mean, he was raised on earth, right? What does he know about being alien?

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 06:47 pm (UTC)(link)
As Robin, yes.

Re: Questions

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 07:54 pm (UTC)(link)
IIRC, they had a rather nasty break-up.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 08:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh, oh, don't forget that the early post-Crisis version had Bruce hand the job to a thirteen year old he'd met in the same issue as the one where he'd basically told Dick that he couldn't be endangering kids! :D

Because nothing is more heroic than blatant hypocrisy!

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 08:17 pm (UTC)(link)
Very much agreed.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 08:19 pm (UTC)(link)
Whimper... don't make me remember

I MUST finish my Jason Todd 1.0 origin series sometime soon!

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 08:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Hey, it could've been worse. He could've been retconned into recruiting Jason just because he wanted a replacement!Dick or something.

Oh wait.

I MUST finish my Jason Todd 1.0 origin series sometime soon!

Please do!

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 08:28 pm (UTC)(link)
Nightwing!Jason and Batman!Deathstroke meeting is one of these great missed opportunities. Getting noticed by and upsetting Bruce is proper Jason motivation imo. Maybe their working together could have something to do with Rose, which would also bring the added bonus of messing with Dick.

[identity profile] 2009-09-22 08:36 pm (UTC)(link)
He can crush coal into diamond in his hands without effort, he can count the bloodcells in your body with a glance, yet he has to reduce himself to human standards of living so he can shake hands without crushing the other guys hand to a pulp. And he can never show frustration in public. Being with people when he doesn't have to BE the normal guy and can be the guy who can see poppies for the colour they really are; ultra violet (since bees can't see red, poppies being that colour has no practical use)

[identity profile] 2009-09-23 02:53 am (UTC)(link)
"Robin Hood and Little John. The Lone Ranger and Tonto. And hell, why not Sherlocke and Watson, just to round out this impromptu list of the great non-ambiguously homoerotic crime-fighting duos of all time, to which I'm naturally choosing to compare you and your erstwhile partner." Good god, Clark.

But really, this is a nice, nice scene. Clark is obviously very fond of Dick and knows him well enough to be gentle and respectful of the hurt feelings regarding the fallout, while still managing to seem relatively non-partisan, which Dick also respects. Was it canon before this story that Nightwing came from Superman? I'm so curious.

[identity profile] 2009-09-23 03:03 am (UTC)(link)

[identity profile] 2009-09-23 03:07 am (UTC)(link)
In the scene where Dick changes into the costume for the first time, he mentions that it and the name were inspired by the two greatest heroes he had. Paraphrased.
kingrockwell: he's a sexy (Babs Gordon)

[personal profile] kingrockwell 2009-09-23 03:13 am (UTC)(link)
As far as I know, the name Nightwing had always originated from the hero of Kandor. There was a Silver Age story, I believe, where Supes and Jimmy were on another planet and dressed up as Nightwing and Flamebird for whatever reason, though. That might have predated any other origin of the name, unless it included it...

[identity profile] 2009-09-23 03:31 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, regardless of how many retcons are dedicated to fixing the problem, there's probably nothing that will ever really make the idea of Bruce taking it upon himself to "fire" Dick from an identity he created in the first place reasonable to me.

But of the post-Crisis versions, I've always preferred the one with the bullet, for some reason. To me it seemed less a bad reaction to a new situation (ie: Robin being seriously injured), and more Bruce finally and definitively failing to deal with the reality that the people he loves are mortal, that Robin can and will be lost, and that in fact, the closer he is to Dick the more likely he is to meet a brutal and horrifying end on his watch.

Still ridiculous, dysfunctional, and hypocritical, mind you; but I prefer my Bruce misguidedly altruistic rather than petty and possessive.

[identity profile] 2009-09-23 07:15 am (UTC)(link)
An unnecessary, but conveniently appealing to humans, side effect.

[identity profile] 2009-09-23 07:20 am (UTC)(link)
Yes, Nightwing and Flamebird were the non-powered "Batman and Robin-like" identities frequently adopted by Clark and Jimmy within Kandor during the pre-Crisis era.

Dick adopting the name was a perfect tribute of Superman and Batman, honouring the two heroes who had shaped the man he'd become.

Of course Crisis buggered that up for 10 years, since Kal had never been a hero in Kandor... and Superman and Batman hadn't been colleagues...

[identity profile] 2009-09-23 07:47 am (UTC)(link)
Semi off topic question, but does Slade know Bruce Wayne is Batman? It seems kind of odd that knowing Dick was Robin wouldn't lead him to figuring out Bruce Wayne was Batman.

[identity profile] 2009-09-23 11:34 am (UTC)(link)
Slade does know Bruce Wayne is Batman, or did in one story. I just read where he admits it.