Rise of the Powers of X #1 - "Data Pages"

[laughing_tree]

Fall of the House of X is Gerry doing the enormous, explosive, big-budget, present-day fight against Orchis. I'm doing the multiple timelines, Moira collapsing real space, "What is the nature of the future anyway and can we fight it?" plot. Both metaphorically and physically, because it's an X-Men comic and the metaphor is also physical, and a metaphor you can punch in the face is how one does superhero comics. -- Kieron Gillen








Stasis and the Children of the Vault use a supernova-powered weapon to infect the Dominion:

Comments

[cainofdreaming]

How does removing Moira from the equation help? The Sinisters would still be there. Go back to Victorian England, grab him and pay the Collector with some alternate future swag to store him up (much more secure than death).

[shakalooloo]

The ascension only happens due to the repeated timelines allowing for multiple attempts at getting it right. If there's just the one timeline, none of the Sinisters can succeed at attaining Dominion-hood, having no access to a walkthrough.

[cainofdreaming]

But there are always more than one timeline. Just ask Watcher.

[shakalooloo]

But these are special 'Moira X' timelines? It's never been outright stated, but the assumption I think we're meant to make it that they're distinct from multiverse alternates, otherwise each being wiped out at Moira's death wouldn't matter, since they'd be accessible to the Captain Britain Corps or Blink, or whoever. They do not run alongside the 'main' universe, but are overwritten every time Moira respawns.

Unless... The ultimate twist at the end of this storyline will be that the other timelines exist, and while 616 may merrily toddle along without Krakoa, it'll exist somewhere in the multiverse, Lost Light-style.

[cainofdreaming]

Why would that matter? If the Dominion thingy exists outside of time and space and can access alternate timelines then, well, it can access alternate timelines whether Moira is there or not.

[shakalooloo]

Once Moira's gone, her previous timeline is gone too, overwritten by the newer version. Anything the Dominion may do there will have no effect on the latest update, since that never happened, and no-one will ever know.

[cainofdreaming]

Yes? And why can't the Dominion use the attempts in regular timelines? That doesn't sound like a reason.

[laughing_tree]

The Dominion can *if* its attempts succeed in the new timeline, yes. But that success is not a guarantee.

[cainofdreaming]

Isn't that exactly how it works for the Moira timelines too?

[laughing_tree]

It's already succeeded in the Moira timelines. It hasn't succeeded yet in the new timeline Xavier wants to create. Ergo, Xavier wants to take his chances with the new timeline.

I think.

[dan_ingram]

Yup.

The Moira retcon keeps getting worse.

[cygnia]

"Hey, let's kill the unknowing innocent child -- that NEVER fails or is morally problematic!"

[alliterator]

I mean, 1) she isn't "unknowing," she has all of the memories of Moira's first nine lives, and 2) yeah, *that's the point*. Xavier going "We need to kill this child" shows just how desperate he is and how far he is willing to compromise on his morals.

[phantomfo]

Apparently they learned nothing from when Logan went back in time to kill Hank Pym before he could create Ultron.

[alliterator]

I'd say that this the Moira retcon being used to its fullest potential. But hey, if you don't like the retcon, you can just not read the stories!

[dan_ingram]

The retcon relies heavily on tribalism, so whether I read the stories or not, the unfortunate implications are still there.

And I liked Moira before Hickman's dumb retcon

[alliterator]

The retcon that Moira's a mutant relies on tribalism? Weird, I thought it relied on the science fiction concept that she relived her life after she died.

In fact, I'd say that the current Krakoa era is pretty anti-tribalism. Orchis is very much anti-mutant, pro-only humans, while being subverted from within by AI, who are very pro-only AI, anti-mutants AND anti-humans. Meanwhile, the tribalism aspects of Krakoa, which started strong, are eventually faded away, especially when confronted with a society (Arakko) where the tribes of "mutant" and "non-mutant" don't matter at all, it's about those who contribute and collectively empower the whole. (Oops, some socialism snuck in there!)

[dan_ingram]

Nope!

Hickman's X-Men has been about tribalism, by in large, since the beginning.

X-writers have chosen Tribalism, full stop. But because it is the other side of tribalism, it's harder to recognize and thus speak up against.

When most think of tribalism, and the treatment of 'The Other', we need of dehumanization.

"You're Japanese? Eww! You must like tentacle porn!"

But there's another end of the spectrum, one rarely seen. Wherein 'The Other' is elevated, because they are other. That they are better, more righteous because they are not us.

"You're from Tibet? You must be so spiritual!"

For example to exploit this, and to dodge racism, in the 1960s, some African American performers pretended to be of any other nationality, like Korla Pandit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korla_Pandit). I'm hard pressed to blame them, but as they are fictional characters, the X-writers have no excuse for the same.

Mutants are now that 'Other'. They are elevated and revered by their writers for not being human and thus, not having not having the flaws therein. Hell, they can somehow mass produce a metal that the freakin' galaxy can use as currency, without any industrial base at all.

And any who oppose? Any humans are just jealous and nothing more (like Feilong), or worship them likewise.

Mutants are no longer human in that they share any meaningful flaws. Hell, even the kindest among them (Nightcrawler), can kill without batting an eye.

And the kindest, most empathetic human, Moira? Only technically mutant, but since she was always 'human coded' and thus, now the cruelest of them all.

So yeah. The Moira stuff? Really burns.

[justsotired]

It's often called "Magical Person" racism, where individuals of another culture are depicted as more spiritual, magical, or otherwise more enlightened, but often while depicting them as less developed culturally or intellectually, somehow set apart from modern society or that participation in it is "imposed" upon them.

In this case the ideas being played with by Hickman originally were ideas of what a "post-Human" Mutant society might look like - the Arakkii were supposed to represent a society that was completely divorced from the past five thousand years of human cultural evolution - except that Hickman being Hickman, he didn't go back far enough to explain what Arakkii society was grounded IN except for violence, or what the circumstances and needs that shaped its culture were, aside from ceaseless violence.

The problem is, depicting things like an emergent Mutant culture takes time and organic story growth. "What culture would Mutants build if they suddenly had a nation of their own" is a great idea, but the idea that they'd suddenly abandon their cultures and languages of origin en masse is - uh - an idea that rings hollow.

A debate about whether an ethno-state is REALLY a solution to Mutantkind's problems could have been made here, but for whatever reason that wasn't what happened, and what we got ended up mostly feeling like an exercise in applied misanthropy.

I'm willing to call the Krakoa era a bold writers' experiment, but I would say it's a mostly failed one.

[cainofdreaming]

What, orgies and ritual suicide isn't enough culture for you?

[alliterator]

"but the idea that they'd suddenly abandon their cultures and languages of origin en masse is - uh - an idea that rings hollow."

Good, because they don't. They still all have their own cultures. Heck, some of them outright reject Krakoa. The mutants are not a monolith.

Krakoa also realizes that what the Quiet Council is doing is bad and so does Xavier, eventually resolving the *dissolve* the Quiet Council. A lot of what you are talking about is *intentional* story problems that are focused on in different books.

"except that Hickman being Hickman, he didn't go back far enough to explain what Arakkii society was grounded IN except for violence, or what the circumstances and needs that shaped its culture were, aside from ceaseless violence."

Ewing did. X-Men Red is ALL about the differences in Arakki culture and how it was shaped and formed by a thousand years of war and violence and pain.

[angelophile]

This is an excellent summary about how I feel about it.

[full_metal_ox]

"You're from Tibet? You must be so spiritual!"

For example to exploit this, and to dodge racism, in the 1960s, some African American performers pretended to be of any other nationality, like Korla Pandit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korla_Pandit).

Fun Fact that ties into the whole tangle of Magical Other and Mighty Whitey tropes: Pandit’s “Trance Dance”(1) served as the theme song for the radio show Chandu the Magician, whose (white) titular hero studied the Mystic Arts under Mysterious Masters in the Mysterious East, as one did; see also the Shadow, the Green Lama, and Doctor Strange (Chandu served as a lot of Ditko’s inspiration for the character.)

Pandit’s 1948-1951 TV show, Korla Pandit's Adventures In Music, was television’s first all-music program, with an avid female viewership; Liberace’s career was launched when the network Powers That Be decided that a white pretty-boy keyboard player would be even better.

(1) With bonus male exotic dancer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZW-Gb-JYFJE

[alliterator]

"They are elevated and revered by their writers for not being human and thus, not having not having the flaws therein."

This is inherently wrong. If you think the writers are writing these characters without having flaws, you are very, very mistaken. In fact, Xavier admits that he still thinks of mutants AS human.

All this tells me is that you haven't actually read anything past HOXPOX.

"Hell, even the kindest among them (Nightcrawler), can kill without batting an eye."

He's killing genocidal soldiers. He's killing people who kill children.

"Hell, they can somehow mass produce a metal that the freakin' galaxy can use as currency, without any industrial base at all."

Have...have you read ANYTHING? They explain exactly how they produced the metal and exactly why and what Abigail Brand's plan was and how Brand's brand of imperialism was wrong.

"And any who oppose? Any humans are just jealous and nothing more (like Feilong), or worship them likewise."

Wow, you really didn't read anything. Feilong was jealous because his parents were mutants and he wasn't, yes...but his main source of rivalry was with TONY STARK, a HUMAN.

Oh, right: both Captain America and Tony Stark talk about how apprensive they are about Krakoa, but they are BOTH mutant allies in the end, fighting for mutant rights. Heck, Invincible Iron Man is practically an X-book now, despite the fact that Iron Man is 100% human. How does that fit into your philosophy?

I'm just going to post this image right here from a book you probably either didn't read or didn't get:


tldr; your argument wrong and betrays a lack of understanding of the Krakoa Era and a lack of reading of these books.

[dan_ingram]

"This is inherently wrong. If you think the writers are writing these characters without having flaws, you are very, very mistaken. In fact, Xavier admits that he still thinks of mutants AS human.

All this tells me is that you haven't actually read anything past HOXPOX."

I've read plenty, and Xavier really is the exception to the rule. Hell, when was the last time there was even a human supporting cast character around?

"He's killing genocidal soldiers. He's killing people who kill children."

He's one of the most empathetic characters and he's leaving people to die a slow death in space.

"Have...have you read ANYTHING? They explain exactly how they produced the metal and exactly why and what Abigail Brand's plan was and how Brand's brand of imperialism was wrong."

You do know that Brand explicitly did not regard mutants and humans as different, right? And for that, she was *ahem* branded a villain.

"Wow, you really didn't read anything. Feilong was jealous because his parents were mutants and he wasn't, yes...but his main source of rivalry was with TONY STARK, a HUMAN."

Feilong's rivalry might be with Stark, but he's explicitly targeted mutants as well. Stark is just a guy Feilong wants to prove himself better than.

I notice that you haven't addressed their treatment of Moira at all, btw. Kinda telling, that

[alliterator]

"Hell, when was the last time there was even a human supporting cast character around?"

Tony Stark, Steve Rogers, Craig Marshall, the Fisher King. Oops, looks like you are wrong.

"Feilong's rivalry might be with Stark, but he's explicitly targeted mutants as well."

Because he's a sociopath.

"I notice that you haven't addressed their treatment of Moira at all, btw. Kinda telling, that."

I didn't address it because it's not relevant. Your concept of the Moira retcon is fundamentally flawed, because you are still thinking of Moira as human, when she never has been. That makes your entire argument pointless.

I notice you haven't commented on the page I posted, where Storm and Magneto agree that all outcast humans and mutants need to work together in order to protect themselves. Kinda telling, that.

[scorntx]

Ah, Rasputin IV. Still new to Charles Xavier, and therefore doesn't realise that when he says "I've had an idea", you hit him over the head and don't let him do it!
(Because, as Dead X-Men shows, his idea is actually far stupider than simply trying to kill Moira...)


... now, going by everything Gillen's done writing X-Men, and Immortal X-Men in particular, bet at least one of those blanked out names is either Sinister or Mother Righteous.
(Because could we possibly survive more than a single issue without either of them?)

[shakalooloo]

Rasputin's opinion of Prof X is weird. In her appearance in the Sinister timeline, he was one of the biggest threats to the universe, and when she was initially brought back to the present day she was very untrusting of the Quiet Council. She seems to have come around to trusting the prof rather quickly.

[akodo_rokku]

I have to assume Sinister raised her on stories of the noble X-Men and while she learned not to trust HIM by the end of that story, some of the stories are gonna stick.

[mastermahan]

XAVIER: Look, if there's one thing I've learned from Cable, Bishop, Rachel Summers, the Age of Apocalypse, Days of Future Past, that stupid thing where the future X-Men turned out to be the future Brotherhood led by my evil son...

RASPUTIN IV: You've lost me.

XAVIER: My point is, the only thing that can defeat time travel bullshit is more time travel bullshit. Look at Kang! His greatest enemies aren't the Avengers, it's other Kangs. Time travel bullshit cancels itself out. Why do you think I recruited you?

RASPUTIN IV: ...because I'm purehearted, incredibly powerful, and have centuries of combat experience?

XAVIER: Wrong! It's because you're time travel bullshit. And if I can talk to child Moira before she becomes a boring evil robot, we'll have more time travel bullshit on our side.

[cainofdreaming]

"It all sounds so... timey wimey."
"I'm legally not allowed to use that term, but yeah."

[alliterator]

"(Because, as Dead X-Men shows, his idea is actually far stupider than simply trying to kill Moira...)"

I mean, I think he's telling the truth to Rasputin and lying to Rachel. His plan *is* to kill Moira, but I don't think it's going to happen.

[mplily]

...I am so confused.

[nyadnar17]

All this shit because Destiny is such an awful person she thought burning someone alive and then threatening to kill them as a child would ensure their compliance.

Like holy shit Destiny.

[blues32]

It wasn't like her first few lives ended any better. Hell, Moira had been trying to get rid of mutants entirely in that timeline.

[angelophile]

Is there ever a problem Logan doesn't try and solve by stabbing it?

[cainofdreaming]

Premature balding? No, wait, he stabs that too.