I would have included the fight with the Imperial Guard, but it would just be the X-Men fighting characters I hate. I decided to concentrate on the important moment instead.
So after thirty six issues of stating, pretty unequivocally, that Phoenix is actually just Jean's power pushed to its utmost ("the ultimate expression of her abilities as a psi!"), suddenly it's The Phoenix, and a separate entity who's been lodging inside Jean all along, and apparently no-one noticed before.
Oh and apparently the Phoenix is something the Shi'ar knew all about, but apparently didn't feel the need to tell the X-Men at any point before the fight. But then, they're Shi'ar.
But it's alright, because this wasn't actually Jean, just the Phoenix pretending to be Jean, but having imitated her so perfectly it forgot it wasn't Jean and therefore was acting exactly as Jean would have. So Jean's innocent of Phoenix's crimes, except she isn't, except she is, except she isn't and... Could've just not had her wipe out the sodding broccoli people, and we could have avoided this whole stupid, sorry mess.
It's case of trying to have your cake and eating it too gone insanely out of control. And forty years of middling to terrible adaptations followed...
("Down with stuff!")
And another occasion where Claremont's need to over-narrate ruins the moment. Jean (or whoever) sacrificing herself to save everyone and die while still herself? Poignant. Scott then rambling for several panels more and a whole page of Uatu then butting in and spouting off some guff explaining this for the thick kids in the class? Ruins it. Just let the damn moment stand on its own.
(... still think the 90s animated version of this was better. But then, not like it's got a lot of competition.)
And that's just from THIS story arc. That's not counting all the other retcons they'd done to Phoenix. Like how Phoenix is a cosmic entity that's existed since the dawn of creation and has also somehow always been Jean Grey including the time when Phoenix was bonded to Jean's daughter from the future.
Phoenix's origins are practically Hawkman level confusing.
Claremont has acknowledged that Scott's monologue at the end is pretty awkward. Because the ending was changed at the last minute, he wasn't able to foreshadow Jean's decision earlier in the story, so he felt like he had to justify it after the fact via Scott's speech. I tend to agree with you that it wasn't necessary. But, given the massive clusterfuck surrounding this issue, it's a miracle it came out at all, never mind that it's widely regarded as an all-time classic.
Oh, well, if Claremont acknowledges it's not his best, then I'll retract some of my grumbling. (And to be fair, as I understand it there was quite a bit of behind-the-scenes fracaing... fracing? Which would leave anyone a little distracted.)
Oh, definitely. It was just "failure to communicate" all the way up and down the chain of command. There's a really good interview in a book called "The X-Men Companion", where Claremont lays out step by step everything that went wrong:
This one still holds up pretty well, despite everything that happened after. It's a high point in the careers of Claremont and Byrne...and also Jim Shooter, who was right to insist on karmic justice for genocide.
I've always been amazed at the editorial goings on with this particular story. A major change like that, at the very last minute... it's a miracle it turned out even remotely okay, let alone one of the most memorable X-Men stories.
I'm not 100% sure I agree with Shooter's declaration that Jean had to die, since it was a case of "went mad with power" rather than "coldly and deliberately and willfully murdered people", but destroying an entire planet is pretty hard to come back from. (And then Claremont and Byrne would start getting into it with each other with the Trial of Galactus and its lead up).
But the one thing I do know is, as much as I liked X-Factor, and as much as Scott and Jean are my big X-ship... she should have stayed dead. The stark finality of this shouldn't have been broken.
I agree that she should have stayed dead. And I say that as someone who loved Phoenix-Jean when I read this and was heartbroken when they killed her. X-Factor wasn't worth the retcon, IMO. They could've used Maddie (all the Nathan stuff would have been more meaningful) or Rachel or another character for that O5 vibe.
I will also say that I wish the Phoenix had never returned. Rachel could have just been a powerful telepath / telekinetic / chronokinetic with that as her power signature, like Psylocke used that pink butterfly. She didn't need to be "THE Phoenix". I can't think of another great use of it and most are terrible.
Claremont offered them several different options from bringing Jean back, all of which would have worked to some degree or another, but they were just so freaking adamant. (Though I admit, Busiek's suggested way to absolve her of the guilt worked well).
But yeah, they just keep going back to that well, to this day.
Ehhh... Speaking as one who's usually more for characters staying dead after they get a good departure, gonna have to disagree on Jean death. I just wish that she hadn't become so inextricably tied to the Phoenix. (Or that every damn adaptation since has tried to adapt it and utterly blorked it up. '97 came so damn close...) If all a writer's going to do with Jean is yet another rehash of Phoenix, then yeah, let her stay dead.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
no subject
Oh and apparently the Phoenix is something the Shi'ar knew all about, but apparently didn't feel the need to tell the X-Men at any point before the fight.
But then, they're Shi'ar.
But it's alright, because this wasn't actually Jean, just the Phoenix pretending to be Jean, but having imitated her so perfectly it forgot it wasn't Jean and therefore was acting exactly as Jean would have.
So Jean's innocent of Phoenix's crimes, except she isn't, except she is, except she isn't and...
Could've just not had her wipe out the sodding broccoli people, and we could have avoided this whole stupid, sorry mess.
It's case of trying to have your cake and eating it too gone insanely out of control.
And forty years of middling to terrible adaptations followed...
("Down with stuff!")
And another occasion where Claremont's need to over-narrate ruins the moment.
Jean (or whoever) sacrificing herself to save everyone and die while still herself? Poignant. Scott then rambling for several panels more and a whole page of Uatu then butting in and spouting off some guff explaining this for the thick kids in the class? Ruins it.
Just let the damn moment stand on its own.
(... still think the 90s animated version of this was better. But then, not like it's got a lot of competition.)
no subject
Phoenix's origins are practically Hawkman level confusing.
no subject
no subject
(And to be fair, as I understand it there was quite a bit of behind-the-scenes fracaing... fracing? Which would leave anyone a little distracted.)
no subject
https://tombrevoort.com/2023/01/01/the-x-men-companion-1-chris-claremont-interview/#jp-carousel-38110
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
I'm not 100% sure I agree with Shooter's declaration that Jean had to die, since it was a case of "went mad with power" rather than "coldly and deliberately and willfully murdered people", but destroying an entire planet is pretty hard to come back from. (And then Claremont and Byrne would start getting into it with each other with the Trial of Galactus and its lead up).
But the one thing I do know is, as much as I liked X-Factor, and as much as Scott and Jean are my big X-ship... she should have stayed dead. The stark finality of this shouldn't have been broken.
no subject
I will also say that I wish the Phoenix had never returned. Rachel could have just been a powerful telepath / telekinetic / chronokinetic with that as her power signature, like Psylocke used that pink butterfly. She didn't need to be "THE Phoenix". I can't think of another great use of it and most are terrible.
no subject
But yeah, they just keep going back to that well, to this day.
no subject
Speaking as one who's usually more for characters staying dead after they get a good departure, gonna have to disagree on Jean death.
I just wish that she hadn't become so inextricably tied to the Phoenix.
(Or that every damn adaptation since has tried to adapt it and utterly blorked it up.
'97 came so damn close...)
If all a writer's going to do with Jean is yet another rehash of Phoenix, then yeah, let her stay dead.