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scans_daily2025-06-05 12:36 pm
cyberghostface) wrote in scans_daily2025-06-05 12:36 pm
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Pride Month: The People's Joker
I've talked a few times in the past how even though DC won't officially acknowledge it various creators have interpreted the Joker as being LGBT and how he's since become a pride symbol in some circles. More recently trans filmmaker Vera Drew came out with a parody called 'The People's Joker' which reimagines the Joker as a trans woman. It's not just a parody of the Todd Phillips film; there's a lot of comic pastiches throughout the film including an animated segment done in the style of 'The Dark Knight Returns'.
I'm not going to give it an in-depth review but it was a lot better than I thought it would be... while I respected the idea the trailers made it look like a YouTube fan video/adult swim bit that wouldn't work for an entire feature film. In reality there's a lot going on with the film; a lot of it is an autobiography of Vera Drew's experiences coming out as trans through the lens of the Joker (I.E. her mother's attempt at conversion therapy is depicted as being a trip to Arkham Asylum).
One thing that came to mind was how much a story worked with the Joker and how it might not have with, say, Spider-Man or Batman. I guess in addition to the queer readings to the character he's just become such a universal archetype that he lends himself to so many different interpretations.
If you're interested the film is available to stream on Mubi.
I included a trailer under the cut.
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So you may want to find an alternate place to watch the movie. But this being scans-daily, you'll probably figure something out.
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To me, the Joker is overdramatic, he's flamboyant and camp (which are gay stereotypes already, but such is life) but at his core he is a homicidal monster with absolutely no concept of genuine love or affection, or any understanding of same except as something to manipulate others if he needs them to do something for him (like, say, Harley).
He obsesses over Batman to an unbelievable extent, but the fact they're both men is irrelevant to that obsession. At best, the Joker's actions are those of a stalker, not a lover.
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As for the counterpoint, which I've seen argued here before, that Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy shouldn't be presented as LGBTQ icons because they too have killed, that has a simple answer: Harley has reformed in most post-Flashpoint incarnations, and is at worst a wacky anti-hero / anti-villian who can be talked into helping heroes, at best a genuine hero. Ivy's record is less consistent, but there have been incarnations where she's taken either a non-homicidal villain / anti-villain role, and even ones where she's a hero / anti-hero.
The Joker has NEVER been portrayed LONG-TERM as a hero, to the best of my knowledge. Even his "harmless prankster villain" days of the late Golden Age and Silver Age have been long consigned to the dustbin. In pretty much EVERY appearance since 1973's "The Joker's Five-Way Revenge," he's been either a murderer, a torturer, or at the very least makes someone who makes his targets and even henchmen believe he could kill them at any moment.
The closest the Joker's ever come to being reformed in a mainstream DCU comic is in storylines by DeMatteis (Going Sane) and Snyder (Superheavy), in which, due to the Batman's presumed death or permanent disappearance, Joker's attempted to live a quiet life as a sane, benign person. But eventually Batman comes back and so does Joker. Even in the AU Batman: White Knight storyline, in which a brutal version of Batman drugs him sane and he turns hero, it doesn't last.
Now if DC were ever to greenlight a storyline (perhaps as part of yet another DCU continuity reboot) in which the Joker reforms AND IT STICKS, as it's done with Harley... I could get behind his presentation as an LGBTQ icon. Until then -- no. As a bi man, I enjoy him as a villain (when written well and not just "kill torture kill"), but do not consider him any sort of pride role model.
Sorry for the wall of text, but at a time when LGBTQ rights are still at risk (in some cases having backslided) in much of the world, the last thing we need is the glorifying of a thoroughly sociopathic villain as "one! of! us!"
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Of course, it also comes down to which aspects the writers and editors choose to keep and which they quietly retcon or ignore. DC wants them to be comparatively “safe” anti-heroes so…
Kind of like villain-washing Magneto, Emma, Juggernaut. Giving redemption arcs to Otto, Lex, Norman Osborn.
Hell, I refuse to let John Greycrow off the hook for killing kids during the Mutant Massacre, no matter how long ago that was and how many clones he’s been through since.
But at least Harley and Ivy have been more “good” or plausibly heroic in the past few decades compared to Joker, which makes a difference of some sort.
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I think it has more to do with DC's brand preservation for the Joker over him being a villain or whatever. The show Gotham couldn't even use the name 'Joker' for characters that were clearly supposed to be variants of him.
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For some reason I recall "Cannon and Sabre", a minor pair of villains in the 80's Vigilante series (I think). A duo of mercenary assassins whose gimmick was that Cannon used a sword and Sabre used a gun. They had what might be described as a "CCA dodging" gay relationship. They were affectionate with each other, and it's as strongly implied as they could get away with, that they were a romantic as well as a business partnership. Morally reprehensible people, but closer to being gay icons than the Joker could ever be.
Even Mystique and Destiny, two hardcore terrorists who kill with cheerful abandon, were shown to be longtime lovers before they were radicalised. Admirable? Not remotely. Plausibly gay? Absolutely
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I doubt this thing will ever be put to rest. "We're not freaks! We're not monsters! We have to fight the stereotype!" on one hand and "They're always going to see us as freaks and monsters no matter what, we have to own it!" on the other are both well-entrenched positions in the LGBTQ Community, and honestly the average individual probably needs to dip into a little of both everyday to survive.
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It is interesting in terms of showing how fame changes perspectives. The Joker represents the worst lies they tell about the community, especially in a trans context. I shudder at the thought. I think if someone made an original character with all the characteristics of The Joker and pushed them out as any representation for LGBTQ+ how would people react? My guess is that most would not be pleased.
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She might be a kindred spirit, but he'd push her in front of a combine harvester if he thought it would make him happy, or annoy Batman.
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As non-positive representation in the sense of " not perfect or even any kind of ' good ' " character, there's room for well-done stories.
(Sure, it's a prickly subject for discourse - but honestly, discourse as it is struggles to cope with cishet non-positive characters.)
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For example the Lego Batman Movie was effectively structured as a Batman/Joker romance.
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The Joker in particular over the past several decades has consistently depicted as being incapable of anything approaching true emotion or empathy, and lacks the mental outlook which would allow him to develop any genuine romantic or sexual feelings towards anyone of any orientation or gender because nobody matters to him.
To him, everyone else in the universe is an expendable pawn in his games. Only he himself really exists as a person (well, possibly Batman) everyone else, incuding Harley, is fodder.
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