Also: the blue wrapper is unnecessary. Trying to imply that Jon was 'predestined' to become the Doc is foolish, and typical of JMS' "Everything Is Connected" approach to storytelling. A nuclear reactor and an unfortunate chance made Dr. Manhattan, not the colour blue.
but even Doctor Manhattan would most likely say he WAS predestined. we actually discussed this in length in class.
infact Doctor Manhattan would constantly say "This happend, because it it happened." in other words "This happened this because it was always going to happen this way"
But that makes no sense in context of everything that happens in the story. Jon actively acknowledges that everything is happening by chance, and that he can only predict what happens thanks to his ability to see the future. Jon's weakness is that he observes chance occurrences but doesn't act to prevent them (as Comedian helpfully points out after Jon reprimands him for shooting a pregnant woman), because has all this power but is still, ultimately (and not unlike Moore's Joker), a normal man who was very unlucky this one time.
In fact, his profound realisation that there is no God or higher consciousness running everything is what prompts him to escape our own reality and create one in which he IS the higher consciousness.
He acknowledges the Douglas Adams truth that "Anything That Happens, Happens", but that does not at all mean it always was going to happen. Anyone could have been locked in that reactor core, it just happened to be him. Same as the cat in the box (which Moore cleverly references with Bubastis when Ozymandias attempts to kill Dr. Manhattan); just because you observe that the cat is dead doesn't mean it was always dead, or that it was predestined to die in this box, at this time.
Predestination is one of the most pessimistic concepts ever, and Jon ends the story with a very optimistic viewpoint.
In fact, one of the most significant moments in "Watchmen" comes from Jon realising that things aren't always predictable: he could never have seen Sally Juspeczyk and the Comedian being in love, and through that miracle he finds faith in humanity again. It's proof that things AREN'T predestined that ultimately saves him.
again though this only happens AFTER. the truth is, i was more curious to see how Manhattan dealt with this realization. Would he have TRIED to change the past, realizing that maybe this human factor, this un predicatle un knowable, might inable him to do so? or would he be unable to because, he was never able to?
One of the discussions we had in class was that if time travel was/is possible why doesn't somebody go back in time and Kill hitler? the answer is: because Nobody went back in time and killed Hitler.
Manhattan knew that Comedian would kill that woman and nothing to stop it because, he did nothing to stop it. He can't change what has already happend and to him IT HAS already happened. Same thing with Laurie, he makes the clones of himself for her during sex and then tells her "This is when you leave me". This how ever does not discount the idea of choice.
one of the things i have always found interesting about Manhattan is the idea of the struggle between predestination and choice. Manhattan kind of inhabits both, or maybe is trapped between both.
It is funny that it is Science that kinda proves to Manhattan (and only science COULD prove it to him) that miracles CAN happen. That even though many things "Will happen as they are meant to" small chances (like him getting stuck in the reactor) or thermodynamic miracles (such as laurie). it's all very poetic. Laurie would not have happened if her mother had not made a choice a choice that was surprising in and of itself, even making that choice the chance that through that one choice Laurie would be concieved is the thermodynamic miracle.
It is only when he realizes, and reconnects with his humanity that he acknowledges the HUMAN factor. because through out the book he has almost completely lost touch with his humanity.
Have you read the actual issue, may I ask? Because it's funny that you say that, when it seems like the idea of this book is going to be Jon trying to figure out if if he CAN change his destiny, and at the end it seems like he actually finds a way to go back in time to before his "creation" and gets "himself" out of the chamber that transforms him into Doctor Manhattan.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
no subject
no subject
infact Doctor Manhattan would constantly say "This happend, because it it happened." in other words "This happened this because it was always going to happen this way"
no subject
In fact, his profound realisation that there is no God or higher consciousness running everything is what prompts him to escape our own reality and create one in which he IS the higher consciousness.
He acknowledges the Douglas Adams truth that "Anything That Happens, Happens", but that does not at all mean it always was going to happen. Anyone could have been locked in that reactor core, it just happened to be him. Same as the cat in the box (which Moore cleverly references with Bubastis when Ozymandias attempts to kill Dr. Manhattan); just because you observe that the cat is dead doesn't mean it was always dead, or that it was predestined to die in this box, at this time.
Predestination is one of the most pessimistic concepts ever, and Jon ends the story with a very optimistic viewpoint.
no subject
no subject
again though this only happens AFTER. the truth is, i was more curious to see how Manhattan dealt with this realization. Would he have TRIED to change the past, realizing that maybe this human factor, this un predicatle un knowable, might inable him to do so? or would he be unable to because, he was never able to?
no subject
One of the discussions we had in class was that if time travel was/is possible why doesn't somebody go back in time and Kill hitler? the answer is: because Nobody went back in time and killed Hitler.
Manhattan knew that Comedian would kill that woman and nothing to stop it because, he did nothing to stop it. He can't change what has already happend and to him IT HAS already happened. Same thing with Laurie, he makes the clones of himself for her during sex and then tells her "This is when you leave me". This how ever does not discount the idea of choice.
one of the things i have always found interesting about Manhattan is the idea of the struggle between predestination and choice. Manhattan kind of inhabits both, or maybe is trapped between both.
It is funny that it is Science that kinda proves to Manhattan (and only science COULD prove it to him) that miracles CAN happen. That even though many things "Will happen as they are meant to" small chances (like him getting stuck in the reactor) or thermodynamic miracles (such as laurie). it's all very poetic. Laurie would not have happened if her mother had not made a choice a choice that was surprising in and of itself, even making that choice the chance that through that one choice Laurie would be concieved is the thermodynamic miracle.
It is only when he realizes, and reconnects with his humanity that he acknowledges the HUMAN factor. because through out the book he has almost completely lost touch with his humanity.
no subject
no subject
But no, I took a graphic novel class at csuf. we talked about time travel when we read watchmen
no subject