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scans_daily2021-03-18 07:42 pm
lucean) wrote in scans_daily2021-03-18 07:42 pm
NS: The Snyder Cut Justice League movie
As most here in this fine community are without a doubt aware, the Snyder Cut version of the Justice League movie came out on HBO Max today, in the full glory of four hours. Having just finished It, I decided to create a discussion post here about it while posting some of my thoughts on it.
Before digging deeper in to the movie itself, a couple of caveats. First of all, I really like both Man of Steel and Batman Vs Superman, so Snyder's sensibilities works for me. Second, while I was fine with the original Justice League when I first saw it, but as time has gone by, I've found myself disliking more and more. It is a film that aims to be okay and that emptiness at the heart of it really became heavier for me in retrospect. Still I realize there are people who like it, nothing away from that.
So with that to this version of the movie itself and I will begin the discussion by a simple statement. I FUCKING LOVED THIS FUCKING MOVIE. Now that I have that off my chest, to more collected points.
-This movie is a weird success as it is in structure in many ways the same movie as the original Justice League movie, but almost every scene feels better here. Some of is just the additional depth majority of characters are given here, but it has a flow that isn't the original. However, the most important aspect is that here everyone in the Justice League feel absolutely epic and like a god with the action sequences espeically managing to convey that sense of power.
-With that said, the movie has a lot of stumbles to it as well. The exposition is ridiculously clumsy at times and there is a really bziarre plot hole in the film. So there is a world which had the Anti-Life Equation and where Darkseid was defeated, but apparently the Apokalips crew has forgotten which world it is somehow. Yet they know they lost the Mother Boxes on that world and know that the Mother Boxes are on Earth, but only realize that Earth is the world that repelled Darkseid after Steppenwolfe tells them that. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Fortunately didn't bother me at all.
-On Steppenwolfe, while he was still a generic comic book movie villain, I thought this version managed to give him a lot more depth as I got the character and motivations surprisingly better.
-Continuing on that note, it isn't difficult to understand why majority of the actors involved wanted this version to be released as they are allowed to do more here, wtih one notable exception, and have far more impactful character moments.
-Still the first Martian Manhunter cameo was really dumb. Not only that, it felt like a big misstep as the Martha/Lois scene before that was actually really emotionally powerful.
-"You have a satellite?" "I have six."
-Barry's final run was epic. Hell, the whole final fight concept and choreography was excellent and managed to sideline characters in a way that wasn't Clark leaving a massive fight to big brother Barry.
-On that note, this was something baffled me. Comparing the original and this version makes it abundantly clear how much Johns influenced the original theater release as evidenced by the lack of those weird Superman fawning scenes in this version. Seriously, I sighted out of relief when they didn't have that bizarre 'You think you could beat me' scene between Clark and Bruce here. Now that makes sense, but what I couldn't figure out it is that Johns absolutely loves Barry, but the Flash was so much better here and allowed to do more. Like seriously that final run.
-I will never stop shipping Bruce and Diana. While it will never get fulfilled in this film series, at least it was nicely set up.
-What genuinely shocked me was that Bruce being suicidal arc was completley from Whedon and Johns. It had the best emotional scene in the theater version, the talk between Bruce and Diana, but still as an arc it was a really weird one which I had assumed was from Snyder.
-To return to the comparison between the theater version and this cut, what makes the theater cut so astonishing looking back now is that it made almost every scene worse. Like they actively cut and added to all action scenes stuff that made them inferior. It is such an accomplishment.
-The only note I will make on Whedon, despite there being a lot to be said because of this version and recent allegations, is in comparison to Snyder. To put it simply, Whedon is nowhere the level Snyder is on in capturing superpowered action. Actually I would put Snyder as among the best when it comes to that specific skill as his ability to really give that sense of power to those scenes is genuiinely impressive.
-Real sad we will never get that Batman/Deathstroke film as it would have been dope. Having written that, the Knightmare stuff was superweird as that was apparently the only new scene Snyder shot after his cut was greenlit. Which means that the only thing Snyder added was a cliffhanger scene that will never be resolved. I'm conflicted on that as on one hand it is stupid, but on the other hand I can't help but respect that level of committment.
-With all that positivity, there is something that does leave me conflicted. The toxicity for and against Snyder, and his DC films, is a huge problem in online discussion. It also cannot be denied that the fact that there were some pretty questionable actions by the fanbase that wanted the Snyder cut released that led to it now being available. This isn't to justify what they did, but rather a part of me feels torn on enjoying something that is born out of such poisoneous fruit.
-Rotten Tomatoes score is at the time of writing at 77% and there's a lot of good buzz on it, at least based on what I've seen. From the critical stand point, this had to exceed WB's expectations, which is a good signal when they think of similar projects in the future.
With that I end and would love to hear others thought on this as they get around watching it. Apologies on the many words, hopefully at least a few of them made sense. And seriously, I loved this movie so much.
Before digging deeper in to the movie itself, a couple of caveats. First of all, I really like both Man of Steel and Batman Vs Superman, so Snyder's sensibilities works for me. Second, while I was fine with the original Justice League when I first saw it, but as time has gone by, I've found myself disliking more and more. It is a film that aims to be okay and that emptiness at the heart of it really became heavier for me in retrospect. Still I realize there are people who like it, nothing away from that.
So with that to this version of the movie itself and I will begin the discussion by a simple statement. I FUCKING LOVED THIS FUCKING MOVIE. Now that I have that off my chest, to more collected points.
-This movie is a weird success as it is in structure in many ways the same movie as the original Justice League movie, but almost every scene feels better here. Some of is just the additional depth majority of characters are given here, but it has a flow that isn't the original. However, the most important aspect is that here everyone in the Justice League feel absolutely epic and like a god with the action sequences espeically managing to convey that sense of power.
-With that said, the movie has a lot of stumbles to it as well. The exposition is ridiculously clumsy at times and there is a really bziarre plot hole in the film. So there is a world which had the Anti-Life Equation and where Darkseid was defeated, but apparently the Apokalips crew has forgotten which world it is somehow. Yet they know they lost the Mother Boxes on that world and know that the Mother Boxes are on Earth, but only realize that Earth is the world that repelled Darkseid after Steppenwolfe tells them that. I couldn't figure it out for the life of me. Fortunately didn't bother me at all.
-On Steppenwolfe, while he was still a generic comic book movie villain, I thought this version managed to give him a lot more depth as I got the character and motivations surprisingly better.
-Continuing on that note, it isn't difficult to understand why majority of the actors involved wanted this version to be released as they are allowed to do more here, wtih one notable exception, and have far more impactful character moments.
-Still the first Martian Manhunter cameo was really dumb. Not only that, it felt like a big misstep as the Martha/Lois scene before that was actually really emotionally powerful.
-"You have a satellite?" "I have six."
-Barry's final run was epic. Hell, the whole final fight concept and choreography was excellent and managed to sideline characters in a way that wasn't Clark leaving a massive fight to big brother Barry.
-On that note, this was something baffled me. Comparing the original and this version makes it abundantly clear how much Johns influenced the original theater release as evidenced by the lack of those weird Superman fawning scenes in this version. Seriously, I sighted out of relief when they didn't have that bizarre 'You think you could beat me' scene between Clark and Bruce here. Now that makes sense, but what I couldn't figure out it is that Johns absolutely loves Barry, but the Flash was so much better here and allowed to do more. Like seriously that final run.
-I will never stop shipping Bruce and Diana. While it will never get fulfilled in this film series, at least it was nicely set up.
-What genuinely shocked me was that Bruce being suicidal arc was completley from Whedon and Johns. It had the best emotional scene in the theater version, the talk between Bruce and Diana, but still as an arc it was a really weird one which I had assumed was from Snyder.
-To return to the comparison between the theater version and this cut, what makes the theater cut so astonishing looking back now is that it made almost every scene worse. Like they actively cut and added to all action scenes stuff that made them inferior. It is such an accomplishment.
-The only note I will make on Whedon, despite there being a lot to be said because of this version and recent allegations, is in comparison to Snyder. To put it simply, Whedon is nowhere the level Snyder is on in capturing superpowered action. Actually I would put Snyder as among the best when it comes to that specific skill as his ability to really give that sense of power to those scenes is genuiinely impressive.
-Real sad we will never get that Batman/Deathstroke film as it would have been dope. Having written that, the Knightmare stuff was superweird as that was apparently the only new scene Snyder shot after his cut was greenlit. Which means that the only thing Snyder added was a cliffhanger scene that will never be resolved. I'm conflicted on that as on one hand it is stupid, but on the other hand I can't help but respect that level of committment.
-With all that positivity, there is something that does leave me conflicted. The toxicity for and against Snyder, and his DC films, is a huge problem in online discussion. It also cannot be denied that the fact that there were some pretty questionable actions by the fanbase that wanted the Snyder cut released that led to it now being available. This isn't to justify what they did, but rather a part of me feels torn on enjoying something that is born out of such poisoneous fruit.
-Rotten Tomatoes score is at the time of writing at 77% and there's a lot of good buzz on it, at least based on what I've seen. From the critical stand point, this had to exceed WB's expectations, which is a good signal when they think of similar projects in the future.
With that I end and would love to hear others thought on this as they get around watching it. Apologies on the many words, hopefully at least a few of them made sense. And seriously, I loved this movie so much.
no subject
Bruce not being a suicidal wreck, Barry showing just how powerful he actually can be and that this is a guy starting out who isn't used to fighting through pain yet, the whole "So you talk to fish?" bullshit not being uttered (come on, Joss really?), Arthur's kind of the same but his solo movie worked on his issues, Diana was about the same, they actually explained what Victor could do (helping those who had no idea who he was), Clark's returned was handled better in my opinion and his suiting up scene with the voiceovers was very well done and they improved Steppenwolf and had a decent set-up for Darkseid's return. The second Martian Manhunter scene was the better one. The first raises too many questions.
What surprised me was the amount of humor that was in this version. Yes, primarily because of the Flash but other things as well. Especially the scene were the League fights Clark (not really a spoiler) and the Flash running noticing Supes eyeballing and freaking out about it will always be the funniest thing to me.
What I wonder is what would have been edited out to get to it to a more reasonable, for theatres, runtime.
no subject
I actually also initially liked the 'Save one person' thing, but the payoff for it was so absurd that it really robbed a lot of it for me. Here, though, Barry's speech during that final run how he wanted his father to know that his son was one of the best gave me so many emotions.
Damn, I just realized this movie made me like Barry Allen. I don't know what to do with that.
no subject
I thought this bit from a Variety review summed it up real well:
This is no better demonstrated than in the critical scene in which Bruce, Diana, Barry, Victor, and Arthur decide to use the motherbox to bring Clark back to life. This scene also exists in the Snyder cut, but Whedon re-wrote and re-shot it completely to make the discussion into an argument, between Bruce (who believes Clark needs to be resurrected, ethics be damned) and Diana (who believes meddling with death is a bad idea). That argument turns personal when Diana evokes Bruce’s guilt at Clark’s death, and Bruce mentions Diana’s long dead love Steve Trevor — basically because, as Victor puts it, he’s “an asshole.”
The contentious nature of the scene evokes a similar sequence in Whedon’s “The Avengers,” when the MCU superheroes devolve into a lengthy argument about their purpose and motivations. But the kind of interpersonal squabbling that feels right in a Marvel movie doesn’t really work in “Justice League.” In Snyder’s version, the heroes’ big concern is that awakening the motherbox to resurrect Superman will allow Steppenwolf and the parademons to find it and use it to remake the world; the tension isn’t in a fight over the ethics of resurrecting a single dead hero, but in deciding to risk bringing about armageddon. You know, god stuff.
https://variety.com/2021/film/news/justice-league-snyder-cut-comparison-joss-whedon-version-1234934246/
no subject
By the way, that debate about Clark is a really excellent example of the different feels of the versions when it came to stuff like that.