The Thunderbolts meet a homeless girl that has just escaped from a mysterious figure that has been experimenting on the homeless. Of course the Thunderbolts are going to stop the villain, just think of all the publicity!
Moonstone was often a sharp, deft manipulator, yet she was always a little too transparently self-interested for most of her plots to hold together...and considering she spent most of her career trying to act like a hero with varying degrees of sincerity, that's really saying something.
Moonstone: Jolt, I know this might be presumptuous, but...you seem to need a parent figure in your life, and I hope you'll think of me as...well, as someone you can trust, at least. I'm here to talk. If you need me. Jolt: I...thanks, Karla. I appreciate that. Moonstone: MOO HOO HOO HOO HA HA HA HA HAAA! Jolt: What? Moonstone: Nothing.
I feel like the Thunderbolts, individually and as a group, never quite reached that one big, defining storyline that justified all the buildup-- their Galactus Saga, their Dark Phoenix Saga, their Flash of Two Worlds, their Archie Marries Betty and Veronica. In theory, their time to shine could've been their break with Zemo, but we all knew how that one was gonna end well before it began, not because of internet spoilers but because there's really no other way it could've gone.
Their adventures were fun and well-done! There's a lot worse things for a comic to be than consistently entertaining! But next to Busiek's A's--his Astro City, his Avengers--this seemed to settle for being a solid B.
The original Thunderbolts really does seem to be a transitional comic. It was really ahead of its time in a lot of ways but it was also very much a product of the late 90s.
Yeah, the first year is solid with the struggle between their public personas and their private personas and juggling the secret. But then the series really meanders for years based on "they're trying to be heroes but things always seem to go a little wrong" and there's never any truly huge team-defining moment after that. Just a number of strong but ultimately overlookable incidents. The ones you list are all representative of that: strong, entertaining, but nothing you can point at and go "this, this is what defines the Thunderbolts and gives them that unique identity apart from other superhero teams."
And I think all of this, the failure to give them something truly unique, is why the Thunderbolts name has been so easily to repurpose over the years. (See: Fightbolts, Osborn's team, Red Hulk's team, Fisk's team, "Thunderbolts as rehabilitation program," "Thunderbolts as sanctioned NYC heroes", Bucky's team..."
So many other teams in the MU have a core concept--Avengers, Fantastic Four, New Warriors, Champions, even the Defenders--that might see some deviation but inevitably returns to a certain ideal, but Thunderbolts is a name that can be slapped on just about anything.
I'd be happy if Thunderbolts was known as "villains, vigilantes, and anti-heroes trying to be better" and stuck to that concept.
I like that the series evolved over time and wasn't just one thing. You can see the line that took them from this era (villains pretending to be heroes) to the "Most Wanted" era (villains trying to be heroes) to the New Thunderbolts era (ex-villains trying to help other villains reform).
But then you have things like the giant step backward that was the first team with Bucky, the "Thunderbolts in name only" (Fightbolts, Red Hulk's Marvel Knights team, Bucky's current team), and the constant attempts to turn them into Marvel's Suicide Squad (Jeff Parker was the ONLY writer who made that work).
At a certain point it stops being an evolving concept and it becomes just another trademark for Marvel to slap on unrelated projects.
Exactly. There's such a great throughline of concept, and no shortage of villains who could work in the role... if you look back at the various villains who are either misguided, misunderstood, or even just theoretically capable of changing. The ones who are tired of being punching bags, the ones who just want a cure for whatever ails them, the ones who want security...
This is why I love the slow turn of Absorbing Man and Titania. It's why I really like the more sympathetic turns both Rhino and Scorpion have taken of late thanks to their encounters with Miles. It's why I loved the arcs in Squirrel Girl where she took the time to empathize with villains and help them see a better path.
There's room for the irredeemably evil villains. There's room for the blue collar/professional villains. There should be more room for the ones who just want to make a change.
I liked Parker's run, though I wasn't a fan of the art. But having Luke Cage run the team as essentially work-release for villains trying to be better was a nice idea.
Nothing good comes of diluting the concept, alas. And especially having Thunderbolts be "NYC sanctioned heroes" and "Bucky's Red Skull Vengeance Team" back to back in the space of a couple months really doesn't help.
And here's where Zemo's scheme starts going off the rails. Not only do they have to keep the ruse going 24/7 with Jolt around but how her idealism starts affecting the rest of the team who were already having doubts in the mission.
Hope you post the team-up special with Spider-Man that shows MACH-1 the first to start breaking into hero thinking.
And love how Techno's blurting of Moonstone's name comes up later with "folks really should have noticed."
Well, there is a plot point about Spider-Man's powers that will become a big deal later on.
And I always thought Spider-Man's relationship to "his" villains reforming was pretty interesting. He's going to be kind of a jerk to Abe much later even though I don't think he deserves it and he's arguably the Thunderbolt that sacrificed the most to be a better person. Meanwhile Boomerang and Norman just sort of accidentally feel backwards into the hero thing and Peter accepted them eventually.
(Yeah, Abe is my favorite Thunderbolt and that annual is a big part of why)
People on the internet would 100% think that a mistake made by a character was a mistake made by the writer that slipped by the "lazy editors" and bring it up for months.
If the story later acknowledges that it was the character's mistake then its just "the writer refusing to admit their mistake".
Y'know... because Kurt Busiek is known for his sloppy continuity.
(Watching online fandom form was weird ... but I've read enough old letters columns to know these people have always existed.)
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Moonstone: Jolt, I know this might be presumptuous, but...you seem to need a parent figure in your life, and I hope you'll think of me as...well, as someone you can trust, at least. I'm here to talk. If you need me.
Jolt: I...thanks, Karla. I appreciate that.
Moonstone: MOO HOO HOO HOO HA HA HA HA HAAA!
Jolt: What?
Moonstone: Nothing.
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Their adventures were fun and well-done! There's a lot worse things for a comic to be than consistently entertaining! But next to Busiek's A's--his Astro City, his Avengers--this seemed to settle for being a solid B.
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For me the defining stories were the break with Zemo, the Gravaton stuff, Scourge, Counter Earth, and the Avengers crossover mini.
Also Zemo vs Genis...though it really feels like the Stucker and Grandmaster stories from around that time should have been the primary focus.
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And I think all of this, the failure to give them something truly unique, is why the Thunderbolts name has been so easily to repurpose over the years. (See: Fightbolts, Osborn's team, Red Hulk's team, Fisk's team, "Thunderbolts as rehabilitation program," "Thunderbolts as sanctioned NYC heroes", Bucky's team..."
So many other teams in the MU have a core concept--Avengers, Fantastic Four, New Warriors, Champions, even the Defenders--that might see some deviation but inevitably returns to a certain ideal, but Thunderbolts is a name that can be slapped on just about anything.
I'd be happy if Thunderbolts was known as "villains, vigilantes, and anti-heroes trying to be better" and stuck to that concept.
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But then you have things like the giant step backward that was the first team with Bucky, the "Thunderbolts in name only" (Fightbolts, Red Hulk's Marvel Knights team, Bucky's current team), and the constant attempts to turn them into Marvel's Suicide Squad (Jeff Parker was the ONLY writer who made that work).
At a certain point it stops being an evolving concept and it becomes just another trademark for Marvel to slap on unrelated projects.
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This is why I love the slow turn of Absorbing Man and Titania. It's why I really like the more sympathetic turns both Rhino and Scorpion have taken of late thanks to their encounters with Miles. It's why I loved the arcs in Squirrel Girl where she took the time to empathize with villains and help them see a better path.
There's room for the irredeemably evil villains. There's room for the blue collar/professional villains. There should be more room for the ones who just want to make a change.
I liked Parker's run, though I wasn't a fan of the art. But having Luke Cage run the team as essentially work-release for villains trying to be better was a nice idea.
Nothing good comes of diluting the concept, alas. And especially having Thunderbolts be "NYC sanctioned heroes" and "Bucky's Red Skull Vengeance Team" back to back in the space of a couple months really doesn't help.
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Hope you post the team-up special with Spider-Man that shows MACH-1 the first to start breaking into hero thinking.
And love how Techno's blurting of Moonstone's name comes up later with "folks really should have noticed."
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And I always thought Spider-Man's relationship to "his" villains reforming was pretty interesting. He's going to be kind of a jerk to Abe much later even though I don't think he deserves it and he's arguably the Thunderbolt that sacrificed the most to be a better person. Meanwhile Boomerang and Norman just sort of accidentally feel backwards into the hero thing and Peter accepted them eventually.
(Yeah, Abe is my favorite Thunderbolt and that annual is a big part of why)
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Can you tell this was before the internet was a huge thing?
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If the story later acknowledges that it was the character's mistake then its just "the writer refusing to admit their mistake".
Y'know... because Kurt Busiek is known for his sloppy continuity.
(Watching online fandom form was weird ... but I've read enough old letters columns to know these people have always existed.)
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Zemo is an engineer. Not scientist.
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Still kinda fascist, though. Even in his "hero" era.