Superman/Wonder Woman: the Only Ship Supported by Joseph Stalin!

[espanolbot]

Comments

[biod]

I'm a little sad that s_d doesn't have a "Joesph Stalin" tag.

[biod]

But it's made up for by the fact that Superman looks most fetching in a Soviet uniform. *ahem*

[icon_uk]

Is it odd that I like it for the Russianed up Pete Ross?

[thatnickguy]

Can someone explain to me why so many people obsess over Red Son?

Let me be perfectly clear: I don't hate it. In fact, I read it and thought it was quite good. Most especially the ending sequence that was apparently written by Grant Morrison, not Mark Millar - and honestly, knowing that, you can see the idea totally coming from Morrison.

But my point is that, to me, it's just another Elseworld. There's nothing about it that doesn't really set it apart from other Elseworlds that have been told before, like Speeding Bullets (what if he crashed in Gotham?) or some of the annuals that came out in the 90s where all annuals for one year were Elseworlds (like Jungle Book Superman). It still follows all the usual tropes that other Elseworlds do: copying things from the regular mythos and sticking them in a Russian setting. You have Wonder Woman, Lex Luthor, Braniac, Green Lantern, etc.

Again, it's not BAD by any means. I won't knock it for the lack of quality. But people constantly rank it high on their lists of graphic novels or Superman stories in general when there are far, far, FAR better ones out there.

[blunderbuss]

There's one where he crashed in Gotham? Is it good? :O

[obsidianwolf]

Personally I like it though Kal El raised as Bruce Wayne might not be for everyone.

[thatnickguy]

Superman: Speeding Bullets. And it's not bad. Not great, of course, but not bad. It's fun.

[zapbiffpow]

Hang on a bit and I'll post a few pages of that the day after next!

[jlroberson]

He what? I'm presuming he must have destroyed it then. That sounds very silly.

[ozymanidas]

Let me call it like I see it:
Redson takes superman and puts him in soviet Russia which over the years of propaganda has become viewed by us Americans as the ultimate literary foil to our USofA and when you put an American icon like superman into that setting you would normally see things as black and white with the soviet superman being evil just cause he's Russian. Personally I thought Luther would win in the end just cause he's American and he does but not after superman has created a utopia. I guess my point is that unlike most elseworlds this one made you think about if the soviets had better leaders and had won the Cold War while most elseworlds are just funny or simple

[jlroberson]

Thing is that in RED SON Millar doesn't treat Soviet Russia in the one-dimensional way you describe, and the US doesn't look so great either. The bad side of the USSR is definitely there--because it was there--but the idealism that led to that is also presented that way. If anything, it's about HOW the idealism can lead to the oppression. But the US does horribly destructive things throughout the story to ensure its hegemony, and is presented as a terribly unequal place. Neither side looks good, really. But the US comes off as very small-minded and selfish, while the USSR comes off as meaning well but failing.

[silverhammerman]

I think it just comes down to a lot of people liking the writing, it's not about the complexity of the ideas or the tropes, it's how they're handled.

Like, it could be just another forgettable Elseworlds, but it takes the simple and maybe goofy idea of "communist dictator Superman" and handles it in a mature and intelligent manner without ever crossing over into being joylessness or trying for false "gritty" maturity. It's got a cool take on a "proactive" Superman and why that wouldn't necessarily be good, and the rivalry between Superman and Luthor is given a gravity and scale that it can't really have in an ongoing.

It might not be particularly deep, but it's enjoyable. Plus, it's pretty high profile due to the talent involved, so it's probably reached a wider audience than arguably better stories.

[jlroberson]

I don't have a lot to say about it except that I do like it, and that it's the last thing I read by Millar that didn't infuriate me. I dunno, I just think it's a good story well-told. And it doesn't follow the "Superman will out" trope all the others do--if anything it inverts it, because at the end he quits being Superman. And its way of getting us there basically dissects that trope. That sometimes, the world does NOT need a Superman.

So I think that definitely sets it apart right there. Though it is annoying that it does follow the "it's Brainiac" pattern so many of them did around then.

PS

[jlroberson]

And I REALLY liked the treatment of Hal Jordan. Specifically the bit about how, in captivity, he imagined making a camp for his captors in every possible detail.

In REAL TIME.

I thought that was kind of clever and a good piece of writing.

[benuben]

You don't like Superior?

[jlroberson]

No opinion; haven't read it.

[lucky_gamble]

I personally disliked the entire book. So many folks got the brush off (green latern, wonder woman) when should've been credible threats or at least significant obstacles to Superman.

[benuben]

That is a valid complain but I fail to see why would that ruin the whole book for you. It's not like Superman fighting them was what the book was about.

Besides, wasn't Superman supposed to be more powerful, because he spent a lot of time absorbing radiation from sun?

[donnblake]

I'm not sure about absorbing more radiation, but he definitely does come off as more powerful. He's really in full-on Silver Age Super-god mode here, Super-Science and all.