espanolbot: (Default)
[personal profile] espanolbot posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Lately there has been a lot of discussion as to what makes a good or interesting female character compared to a weak or poorly written one. Here is my interpretation of how to do it.


Will make a seperate one regarding women in speculative fiction, as there are some different things to bare in mind while using a constructed universe.

Date: 2013-09-22 02:40 pm (UTC)
crinos: (Default)
From: [personal profile] crinos
Okay, I'm adding "Drive donuts in a manor lawn with a stagecoach" to a list of things to do in a pathfinder game.

Date: 2013-09-22 05:06 pm (UTC)
junipepper: (Default)
From: [personal profile] junipepper
Your artwork has really improved over time. Well done!

Date: 2013-09-22 08:41 pm (UTC)
jkcarrier: first haircut after lockdown (Default)
From: [personal profile] jkcarrier
Agreed - The text is as funny and insightful as usual, and the drawings are some of your best yet. Are you doing something different with the colors? Looks great.

Date: 2013-09-23 01:55 am (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
One of the first non-DC/Marvel titles I read when I became old enough to comprehend there was such a thing was Queen and Country, by Greg Rucka.

I was wondering if you guys have read it, and if so, is Tara an example of a good female character? And is she an example of a strong female character?

Date: 2013-09-23 02:56 am (UTC)
lieut_kettch: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lieut_kettch
Might even be easier, seeing as the link between the horses and the coach is more flexible and would enable it to swing around more.

And yeah, I've put way too much thought into this.

Date: 2013-09-23 04:47 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] richardak
Well, she's definitely a Greg Rucka character. I kid, I kid. I think Tara is a great character. I keep meaning to post some Q&C scans.

Date: 2013-09-23 07:13 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Looking at Lazarus, there's an interesting interview where Rucka almost seems to lean toward the opinion that maybe the lead doesn't need to be another female character to add to his roster, but eventually made her one anyway. So I think even he realises that it has become a trope for him (I wouldn't say cliche, since that feels like a rather negative word), but I think he largely keeps making those characters for the same reason Whedon claims to (although I don't really see it in Whedon, personally) - in that not enough other writers are doing it.

Date: 2013-09-23 07:19 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
In terms of what Espanolbot is laying down above, I'd say she is; She's a fully fleshed out character, she has her own agency and personality and is not just an accessory to any male character, she reacts in understandable ways to the things she's doing, she's vulnerable in a way that makes sense in-character rather than her just being poorly written, she's tough but her need to see the department's counselor is well-justified.. I'd say she qualifies easily, being very well-rounded. She's a good example of the proper definition of a 'strong female character', to me, which contrary to a really odd misunderstanding I once saw on Tumblr, is not really about being physically or mentally strong, but *strongly written*, if that makes sense.
Edited Date: 2013-09-23 07:19 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-09-23 08:30 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] shadur
Isn't that on Mr. Welch's list of Things He Is Not Allowed to Do (anymore) ?

Date: 2013-09-23 12:36 pm (UTC)
zapbiffpow: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zapbiffpow
Thanks for the replies, guys. Rucka do seems to have a flair for writing badass female characters, doesn't he?

Too bad I don't have any scans of Queen and Country on hand - someone needs to get on that. Lot of nice dialogue in those issues.

Date: 2013-09-23 01:25 pm (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
And why not just say well written? I know that's what people mean a lot of the time, but I think it's really bad way to put it and only reinforces seeing strengh as an exception with female characters. I mean, how many people that have ever described their favorite male character, had the need to point out he's "strong"?
Edited Date: 2013-09-23 04:19 pm (UTC)

Date: 2013-09-23 05:17 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I don't make up the terms, that's just the way I perceive it. Again, I think it's more that the 'strong female characters' are actually strongly written, and yeah, it's a bad way to put it, so maybe I don't blame the person on tumblr who misinterpreted the concept, but I wouldn't necessarily say I've never said a male character is 'strongly written', either. There are just as many poorly written male characters as female, it's just that age-old thing of, I think, female characters being held to different standards.

Date: 2013-09-23 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] donnblake
Because a well-written character is one that fulfills the author's intended role in the story, and may or may not be complex or well fleshed out, depending on the nature of the story. Someone presenting a Utopia, for example, may be much more concerned with the setting than characterization. Raphael Hythloday in More's Utopia, for example is a well-written character, in that he serves exactly his intended purpose in the narrative, but he is not a strong character, because his intended purpose is not to appear as a real, complex person, but to serve as a mouthpiece to introduce certain ideas.

Date: 2013-09-23 11:14 pm (UTC)
full_metal_ox: A gold Chinese Metal Ox zodiac charm. (Default)
From: [personal profile] full_metal_ox
"Princess Potato Sack" brings to mind Michael O'Donoghue's old adult damsel-in-distress strip The Adventures of Phoebe Zeit-Geist, in which Phoebe's death in the third episode has no discernible effect on the plot flow; her corpse simply continues to drift from one misadventure to the next.)

Date: 2013-09-24 09:37 am (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
How do you actually say the character is "strong" in the sense of being strong person? And I think that is what most writers see behind the term.

Date: 2013-09-24 11:50 pm (UTC)
full_metal_ox: A gold Chinese Metal Ox zodiac charm. (Default)
From: [personal profile] full_metal_ox
An excellent recent example of a heavily flawed heroine would be the Avatar Korra, who comes off as abrasive, arrogant and doesn't always make the right decision due to her inexperience, but is determined, loyal, heroic, and brave, for example.

The above is a beautiful example of how Bryan and Mike play around with off-the-rack character archetypes; their Hot-Blooded Shounen Fight Anime Hero is a girl--just as their gentle and peaceable Miraculous Child and Friend to All Living Things was a boy. (One of the series' greatest virtues is the awareness that plot function does not equal character; more stock plot roles include the Poor Little Rich Girl, the supernaturally perceptive blind person, and the 500-pound gorilla of the pro-wrestling circuit, but how often do you see all three embodied in a single person--speaking of well-written female characters?)

Date: 2013-09-26 04:32 am (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
Which really makes me shocked at how poorly they are handling Bolin. It's clear the wanted him to be the new Sokka but they forgot that being the comic relief was just a PART of his character. Bolin is a pure plot function. Nothing more.

Date: 2013-10-03 01:05 pm (UTC)
benuben: (Default)
From: [personal profile] benuben
The problem is that there isn't much to define.

Profile

scans_daily: (Default)
Scans Daily

Extras

Founded by girl geeks and members of the slash fandom, [community profile] scans_daily strives to provide an atmosphere which is LGBTQ-friendly, anti-racist, anti-ableist, woman-friendly and otherwise discrimination and harassment free.

Bottom line: If slash, feminism or anti-oppressive practice makes you react negatively, [community profile] scans_daily is probably not for you.

Please read the community ethos and rules before posting or commenting.

March 2026

S M T W T F S
1 2 3 4 5 67
8 9 10 11 12 1314
15161718192021
22232425262728
293031    

Most Popular Tags