Booster Gold #25

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

Warning: this post contains long-winded ranting.

A bit of background for the uninformed:

This issue has Booster sneaking back into the Batcave to once again try and retrieve the photos of him at the scene of the Joker shooting Barbara Gordon. Bruce!Batman was aware of what happened and of Booster's attempt at preventing the shooting, but now that Bruce is gone, Rip advises him to get them out of the Batcave so that no one else knows, lest it mess up the timeline somehow.

A couple issues back he tried to get them out, but was caught by Dick, and then Dick disappeared because Black Beetle messed with the timeline ensuring that Dick got killed off when he was still Robin and working with the Teen Titans. After fixing that situation, he tries again by arriving five minutes earlier than the last time he went there. This time, however, he's caught by Damian!Robin, who is quickly followed by Dick!Batman. Alfred is all "Oh hey Booster, s'up?*" and brings refreshments.

*Except, you know, in Alfred-speak.



It's bad enough that the issue where Booster tries to prevent Barbara's shooting just uses her as a prop for the story, and that present-day!Barbara has yet to be informed. (I like to think that Bruce would have told her what Booster did, right after he told Booster that he knew about it, but I doubt we'll actually see that as canon. And actually, this issue would have been perfect timing for Babs to catch Booster in the cave and confront him on what happened, given that she's set up shop there now. She could yell and tell him to not mess around in her past without her permission, then be sympathetic and say she was sorry he went to all that effort for her, and then they could have bonded over missing Ted.) But I find it especially irritating how the photos of the shooting keep getting thrown around so lightly.

Those photos hold such pain and humiliation for Barbara. Not only because of what the Joker did to her, but because their entire purpose was to cause pain to her loved ones.

Given that the photographs hold that kind of awful power, it would make sense that access to them would be severely restricted, and that only four people (excepting the Joker and his goons) would have ever seen them prior to Booster's encounter. (I would think that Bruce would have made them a little bit harder to find than just sitting in an unlocked filing cabinet out in the open in the cave.) Commissioner Gordon saw them because the Joker subjected him to them. I'm guessing that Barbara would have seen them at some point, but it's possible that she chose not to look at them. Harvey Bullock was the detective on the case so he would have seen them, and Bruce would have seen them as he was also on the case in theory, and he apparently elected to store and protect the photos so that they don't run the risk of ever falling into the wrong hands.

So, given all of that, it is logical to assume that Dick Grayson has never seen the photos before this time. Maybe Babs has described the experience in great detail to Dick in the past, but Babs would absolutely not want her friend (who cares a great deal about her and vice versa, who also happens to be her ex-boyfriend/fiancé) to see those photos of her.

As I said above, the entire point of those photos was to cause pain and humiliation for Barbara and people who cared about her*. It would be horribly painful for Dick to see them, and the same goes for Babs, and she wouldn't want him to see that way either, for both their sakes.

*Although really, it was not about Babs in the first place, hence The Killing Joke being a classic case of fridging.

So, yeah. That bugs me. Anyways, onward:




Um, okay. Look, I like the idea of Dick and Booster bonding and becoming pals as much as the next gal ("they have the two best butts in the DCU: together, they fight crime!"), but that last panel? They are essentially smiling and toasting their glasses over the fact that nothing can be done to prevent all the horrible things that the Joker has done (not to mention all the deaths in WWII).

It's one thing to acknowledge the permanence of solidified time (i.e., "you can't change the past"), but it comes off as more than a little callous to be so light-hearted about it, considering the events they're discussing. The millions of people killed because of Hitler, the Joker beating and blowing up Jason Todd, shooting and paralysing Barbara Gordon, torturing her father, murdering Sarah Essen (not to mention all the random unnamed Gothamites who have also been his victims), and all the hell that the Joker has put Bruce and Dick and everyone in the extended Bat-family through over the years. That is kind of what you're toasting over, boys.

*sigh* If it weren't for the sheer awesomeness in the Blue Beetle story in the back, I would have been annoyed that I bought this issue.



Okay, nothing to really rant about this, I just didn't expect what we saw on the following page.



I always picture the Graysons as living in a cozy little trailer at the circus, not living in a spacious suburban house, so I was kind of misdirected and assumed that we would see Dick as a kid at Wayne Manor (especially in light of feeling lost in training Damian and whatnot). Ah well, it was a nice thought, if somewhat awkwardly executed.

Comments

[shanejayell.insanejournal.com]

Now... is that Tim or Damon there? Because I could see Booster MAYBE trusting Tim, but Damon? Not so much.

[pyrotwilight.insanejournal.com]

They don't talk about anything major alongside Damian, they even send him out at one point.

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

Nope.

[manofbats.insanejournal.com]

You just seem to be looking for things to hate about this for some reason because there are obvious explanations for everything you've complained about.

[toasty_fresh.insanejournal.com]

(http://tinypic.com)

[pyrotwilight.insanejournal.com]

The last bit about the house threw me as well.

I've always assumed the family was just poor circus performers yet now Dick owns the circus he used to work in and makes massive moolah, yet I don't know if that means his parents owned it and passed it on to him or what.

[shanejayell.insanejournal.com]

He bought it using insurance money, invested by Bruce I assume.

[mullon.insanejournal.com]

Booster not being able to stop the Joker still bothers me. And I would like to see Booster seeing all those things.

[darkblade.insanejournal.com]

Well if they showed us that then the writers would have to come up with answers to all those mysteries

[starwolf_oakley.insanejournal.com]

Last page: From what Booster says, you'd almost think "Doing what we do comes at a cost *of* their families." Which is true enough, but for most of the Bat-family, their families getting killed is a *motive* for what they do, not an *effect*. (Jack Drake's death being a tragic exception.) Yes, most of the Bat-family figure they are never going to have families or "normal" lives themselves, but still...

[(Anonymous)]

I think Booster was half talking about himself. Since he's started being a hero he's lost his sister twice, lost Ted, Skeets (briefly), lots of friends and barely has anyone outside his job to listen to him.

[sistermagpie.insanejournal.com]

Okay, the thing that got me here? Was the last thing you mentioned. Of course the Graysons didn't live in a suburban house. It's like the writer/artist forgot the main thing about who Dick is.

Or maybe Booster just brought Dick to the house belonging to strangers who were big Flying Graysons fans.

[sistermagpie.insanejournal.com]

Oh, and on the other subject, are we seeing that he's looking at the full extent of the photos? I assumed they weren't throwing around pictures of naked, posed Babs there. The ones in the scans aren't. I can't remember seeing more graphic ones suggested in other panels. Were there?

[salamangkiero.insanejournal.com]

I actually liked the interaction here, as it shows that Booster is really quite smart - on the verge of going OOC (if he hasn't already, but that seems to be the point...). As for the toast, I think the smiles there aren't lighthearted inasmuch as sad ones - it just didn't translate well. Wouldn't we all want to change something in the past...but then, how would that change the present in ways we never thought of?

I remember an old sci-fi story, where the problem is: even if you changed the past, all you would do is create a divergent timeline. your past would still be the same...

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

Yeah, I like the sentiment behind it. And overall I do think it was well-intentioned, but it's done in such a way that it has really unpleasant implications.

[aegof.livejournal.com (from insanejournal.com)]

Question!
If the past mostly can't be changed, why does Booster have to do anything to stop it from being changed for the worse?

[bluefall.insanejournal.com]

Because SOLID TIME IS STUPID AND INCOMPATIBLE WITH CANON.

[bluefall.insanejournal.com]

All the capslock in the world cannot convey my twitching, homicidal wrath at this behavior by the writers of this series.

Every time you show those pictures to someone, you repeat Barbara's abuse and violation. Every. Goddamn. Time. My incoherent murderous revulsion at the image of two men waving around photos of a naked, bleeding, posed and humiliated woman who interacts with them on a regular basis... Seriously, how can these [redacted for fucking comm rules] not understand how FUCKING NOT OKAY that is?

[shanejayell.insanejournal.com]

Seconded.

[toasty_fresh.insanejournal.com]

I'm almost getting the feeling that Jurgens is seriously confused about what's going on in those pictures . . .

[manofbats.insanejournal.com]

Or you know, he's just having a detective treat them as evidence just as he should.

[thosefew.insanejournal.com]

Booster saw the crucifixion? He should have hung around 3 days, settled the matter (in the DC universe at least) once and for all.

[lencannon.insanejournal.com]

It's not like it's gonna change Mister Terrific's mind. We all know HE'S coming back from the dead in three days and he ain't the son of God either.

[shanejayell.insanejournal.com]

Purely as a side note, I always wondered why Bats didn't at least destroy the Booster related photos after they talked. What was the point of saving them after that?

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

To show them to Babs, of course!

Really though, I have no clue.

From jeb1981 of LJ

[(Anonymous)]

Not to sound nitpicky, but... wouldn't the pictures that Booster's showing Dick here be limited to those of the Joker beating the crap out of Booster? So I'm not sure I'd assume they're casually looking at Barbara's suffering... although they are definitely looking at Booster's (although one would assume he's implicitly permitting this).

Re: From jeb1981 of LJ

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

Hey, picking nits is what we do best here. =)

It is entirely possible that those are the only photos being held up there. But there is still no ignoring what the photos or from or their significance.

[(Anonymous)]

I see what you mean, and I do agree that Babs should play a more active role since what Booster did affects her the most. The timing of it might be ill however since: a.) this arc screams that it's setting up something. Bruce was never able to have those inspiring talks with Booster so his replacement does. Perhaps a connection to lost in time Bruce? Maybe though if I recall the plans for including Booster fighting along Bruce during Final Crisis were changed so that could be the case later on if this was a set up.

b.) Damian is the son of Bruce and a future Batman. I half expected this arc to end with Rip visiting him. Tim might make sense but then again this is the really intense Tim that would likely demand that Booster save Bruce right now. Damian might not like Booster but he listened to Dick when he told him to back off.

c.) When Barbara finds out the arc should center around her and Booster (perhaps even the Joker) not Bruce being dead and how he differs from Dick.

BTW wasn't the cabins locked? I remember that Booster could only find them with the help of Skeets anyway. And not many people can even enter the caves without triggering some alarms. Booster has already been there at least 7 times. The point of the Jokers' behavior in the Killing Joke was to make Jim suffer the worst day of his life on a personal level. Flashing beat up pictures of Booster, a guy that at the time was a newbie in the league, doesn't have that personal touch. If Bruce was keeping this all a secret from Booster it might be likely that he hid it from others. Let's not forget Booster left blood at the bottom of the staircase.

I took it at them being ironic that their pretty much stuck in the same situation. Booster can't/won't risk the cliche "would you kill if you could" time travel question anymore than Dick will kill the Joker. Different environments same answer. I think this was meant to show how lighthearted Dick is compared to Bruce. With Bruce there was a smile but the cowl never came off. There was always a distance while Dick is the sort of guy Booster can get personal with.

Personally I didn't care one way or the other for the BB back ups until Black Beetle arrived. Just never clicked for me.

Graysons' at Christmas: Why is it awkward? Because their not at the circus? I find it believable that the Grayson would go somewhere more comfortable every other Christmas than deciding to work. Families take trips for the holidays. *Shrugs*

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

Bruce was never able to have those inspiring talks with Booster so his replacement does.

No reason why Babs couldn't have been the sympathetic listener instead of Dick.

The point of the Jokers' behavior in the Killing Joke was to make Jim suffer the worst day of his life on a personal level. Flashing beat up pictures of Booster,

Except that they are not just pictures of beat-up Booster, but of the Joker, and as depicted in the second (not scanned above) page of this issue, they are also pictures of Babs.

There was always a distance while Dick is the sort of guy Booster can get personal with.

They totally should have made out.

Graysons' at Christmas: Why is it awkward?

Because it's not what I associate with Dick's childhood while his parents were living, so I wasn't even sure it was them until I saw the Flying Grayson's poster. It disrupts the narrative flow and pulls me out of the story.

[kusonaga.insanejournal.com]

As noted, those are not the pictures of Barbara's shooting, but of Booster Gold's confrontation with the Joker and his henchmen.

[bluefall.insanejournal.com]

Also as noted, that's irrelevant. This scene necessitates that Dick has seen the photos, and they're not bonding over booster getting punched in the face, they're bonding over their manly feelings about the violation of Babs. There is no way to have this scene separate from her victimization.

[merrickm.insanejournal.com]

Just once, just once, I want a time travel story where someone goes back to kill Hitler and it works out beautifully. The world becomes a much better place.

[geoffsebesta.insanejournal.com]

What? Do you know how much writing that would take?

No, it's impossible to change the past. It's much easier to write if it's impossible.

[geoffsebesta.insanejournal.com]

I hate casual time travel.

I especially hate that bit, common to all time travel stories, where the world-weary traveler lists all the amazing things they have seen, in a cockamamie set of set pieces. Oh, you saw the Titanic...and the crucifixion...and apparently nothing interesting between 1911 and 31 AD.

These lists, usually from poor writers, reveal acres about their cultural assumptions and nothing interesting about the characters at all. All you can say is, "Well if that's all Booster looked at and the most interesting observations he's gathered on history, then he's a psychopath. But he's not a psychopath, so the temporary suspension of disbelief here is hurting my head."

[zegim.insanejournal.com]

I think that's part of the point of Booster Gold. Having the the mental strength to endure watching history he can't change and world changing events without going nuts.

[akodo_rokku.insanejournal.com]

Rage over Babs being left out of all of this is certainly justified, but ultimately futile. It's pretty apparent that nobody at DC gives half a crap about Barbara Gorden these days, and letting yourself get mad over it is more self-destructive than anything.

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

t's pretty apparent that nobody at DC gives half a crap about Barbara Gorden these days

That I agree with.

and letting yourself get mad over it is more self-destructive than anything.

This I don't. Articulating and expressing what's wrong with something is very helpful to my mental health, if nothing else.

[megami.insanejournal.com]

Well I loved this whole thing. Thanks for posting it. I haven't read Booster Gold since his comic first came out in the 80s. I really didn't like him much and never got why this community made such a big deal about him. Now I'm finally starting to understand.

And I cried when I saw Dick looking at his Christmas Past. So what if it isn't in a trailer. Maybe his family rented a house one Christmas during the off-season. It's plausible. More plausible than the idea of Dick going back in time. I mean, comic boos *do* require a teeny bit of suspension of disbelief, don't they?

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

I'm glad you liked the scans. I generally really do love this comic, especially the art, but I disliked this aspect of it, as it seems oblivious to the idea that Barbara could be a real character and a genuine part of the story.

It was a touching scene, the lack of the trailer just disrupts the narrative flow for the story for me. I found it confusing is all, because I don't identify Dick's childhood with a big house, and at first glance I would not have guessed that was him and his parents at all were it not for the Flying Graysons poster.

[werehawk.insanejournal.com]

Was anyone who read this arc really confused as to why Black Beetle (and Booster for that matter) were not at the battle between the Titans and Ravager the second time when they were there the first time?

[(Anonymous)]

Not really. I think the only time there were time doubles was when there was a big disturbance in time. When the time dagger was involved in Reality Lost and in 52 which was said to be like "wet cement" in terms of bending the usual rules. Normally doing back gets rid of the first version in the time line where only the time travels remember what happened.

[deepspaceartist.insanejournal.com]

You see, I wouldn't have a problem if Booster had never tried to change the past and had a mission of just preserving the timeline from others trying to change it. Because doing things like killing Hitler or Joker could potentially have really bad consequences.

Say Booster does go back and kills the Joker. Oh look, now the world has been destroyed because the JLA needed Oracle, but Barbara never became Oracle. She's either retired from heroing or prowling the rooftops of Gotham (Hopefully as Batwoman,not -girl by then). Or perhaps some one the Joker would have killed gets into a drunk driving accident and 9-year-old Tim Drake is killed in the crash. Or perhaps one of Booster's own ancestors ends up marrying someone Harley Quinn would have killed intead of their 'proper' spouse, and Michael Carter never exists, so now we've got a paradox on our hands.

Time Travel is never as simple as 'Kill bad person as a kid, the world becomes a better place'.

[darklorelei.insanejournal.com]

Yeah, I actually don't mind that. I just tend to agree that there are some Unfortunate Implications about agency and stuff in this particular case.

[saralakali.insanejournal.com]

I always picture the Graysons as living in a cozy little trailer at the circus, not living in a spacious suburban house, so I was kind of misdirected and assumed that we would see Dick as a kid at Wayne Manor

There's more wrong with this picture than that.

Canonically, Dick is how old? Twenty-five? Fifteen years in the past would put him at the age of ten. His parents were killed when he was nine (or eight).

Even if my timeline is off, it's been more than fifteen years since circuses wintered in Baraboo, WI. If the Graysons had an actual house (as opposed to a mobile home) that they spent the winters in, it would have been in Florida, which does not get that kind of snow.

[nevermore999.insanejournal.com]

Dick's parents were killed when he was 12 post crisis.

[outlikedisco.insanejournal.com]

The scene at the end bugged me, too.

Iirc, growing up Dick and his parents were always with the circus, apart from when it was the off-season where they would spend their summers in Florida and their winters with relatives (relatives in the Rom sense, which meant that everyone his parents age was introduced as an aunt or uncle, kids were always introduced as his cousins, and the elder generation were always grandparents) in Europe.

So I assumed that it's either a. a writer mishap! or b. Tim's home. My reasoning? (it's adorably fluffy) Right now in canon Dick is going to be missing his little brother like woah. Tim was fascinated with the Flying Graysons when he was a li'l kid. And Tim grew up in a nice big house in the same neighborhood as Bruce, in NJ, where snow happens.

That's my two cents :3

[parsimonia.insanejournal.com]

My first thought was, strangely, that he was watching Bruce as a kid at Christmas before his parents died. But yeah, another scenario that would have made sense might have been a happier time with Bruce alive, him and Tim and Babs all happy and hanging out together or something.

[caithyra.insanejournal.com]

Something that bugs me with the "Killing Grand/mas" page?

It's that they are casually talking about killing females (mother and grandmother) in order to stop males. You know, instead of killing Hitler and Joker themselves when they are babies or something, or even throwing in fathers and grandfathers, they are completely focused on killing the female ancestors of these two men. Even when killing a male ancestor or the villain themselves would have the same effect.

Kind of the phrase "She got herself pregnant" (something that have gotten teen mothers expelled from school, while nothing is done to the father).

It just jumped out at me.

[pepperspray101.insanejournal.com]

SERIOUSLY THIS. >_<