Thor #605 Preview: Thor vs. Doom

[sherkahn]

Speaking of battling undead horrors (see my last post), Doom's been keeping busy.
IGN has the view of Doom's handiwork. And it's heartbreaking.



2 pages of the battle that has begun between Balder's squad and Doom's newest minions.
I feel bad because I thought I could stomach what Doom did to Endrick, but this....


I knew a girl like that once. Met her for one night, and she sang and applauded and danced to the sunrise. One of the ones you never forget.
Grrr....



We all know scamps like this lad. Again, more grrr....

We really want to see Doom get his comeuppance after this. This is the villain Loki would respect.

These pages were both beautiful and horrifying. The art and presentation, speaking so much about the people who once were in a few panels, and now what remains of their remains.

I am going to open up an old debate when I mention this, but...
To all the nay sayers about Doom and the Unforgivable arc.

This is the same Doom, the true Doom. Regal and horrifying tyrant, capable of unspeakable acts with on hand as graceful monarch with the other.

Comments

[kiplingkat]

This is like Balder first visit to Hel's domain replayed, only worse because the dead he is fighting are children who did not die by his hand.

[jlroberson]

I would think that his guilt back then while that was going on would have been far more overwhelming. Here, it might cause sorrow, but it would become outer-directed, into fury at Doom, who did it.

And incidentally, as I comment below, this seems almost beneath Doom. Like a practical joke, and an enormous waste of effort, all for this little useless bit of sadism with no long-term payoff.

[sherkahn]

Actually, it's a smart play, making the Asgardians think they are winning and they drop their guard a little before he activates his ace in the hole, the Asgardian Destroyer.

Oh wow, the Destroyer with Doom inside. What a concept.

[jlroberson]

This really seems much more a Loki(or Red Skull) thing to do than a Doom thing.

The Destroyer part--yeah, that'd be Doom.

[lonewolf23k]

Agreed, sherkahn. Doom is a Villain, and should be written as such.

[galateus]

Oh come on, this isn't a bad Doom but it's alot more complicated than just "a villain's a villain, therefore he does Villainous Things."

[freezer]

It really shouldn't be.

[golden_orange]

True.

But not, I suspect, as complicated as some might like to think.

[palabradot]

Oh gods. I can't *wait* to read this.

[proteus_lives]

Doom is very complex.

I liked his dialogue. The enraged Rom child is one of the things that is at the core of Doom.

Despite his regal bearing, Doom grew up in poverty, a member of a hated minority. That impacts everything he does.

[jlbarnett]

the writers have Doom doing unforgivable horrors against a warrior race who are quite willing to kill. Not having Doom die in this makes the Asgardians look bad.

I prefer the Doom who could have been a hero.

Though who knows, maybe they'll go through with killing him after this Doomwar thing coming up and bring Kristoff back for an older take or something.

[freezer]

I prefer the Doom who could have been a hero.

Which Doom is that? The Doom I know would, at best, be Civil War!Iron Man: An egocentric jackass who practically has "the ends justify the means" as his middle name.

[jlbarnett]

The guy who teams up with heroes when ever there's some big threat to the world.

[lonewolf23k]

That's only because he can't rule the world if someone else destroys/conquers it first, of course.

[freezer]

I can trash that rationale with two words:

Lex. Luthor.

[halialkers]

And so? This is the Marvel Universe where they had apartheid against mutants, a species who prior to Decimation probably had individuals worth the Tsar Bomba at minimum. The MU is not one to shun horrors, at least not very much at any rate. And Doom fought the Beyonder and won, so it's not like the Asgardians failing to kill him matters that much. Besides, by this rationale the Joker should have been dead long before he even shot Barbara Gordon. Though a legacy Joker might well be a way to bring a Dark Knight-style Joker in....

[freezer]

Besides, by this rationale the Joker should have been dead long before he even shot Barbara Gordon.

The fact that he's not and we know why he's not doesn't mean he shouldn't be.

And didn't The Beyonder return and kick Doom's ass?

[jlroberson]

Definitely the scummiest thing I've seen Doom do.

I guess we needed reminding just the level of villain he is.

[halialkers]

Well, this is hardly scummier than Genosha, aka Apartheid and the Gulag...WITH MUTANTS!!!.

Though people often remember the "Magnificent" part of Magnificent Bastard without remembering the "Bastard" part.

[jlroberson]

I think it's the perverse, gleeful, mocking sadism that puts it over the top.

Also, looking at the scans here finally convinced me to start reading the book(and it's the best THOR's been since Simonson), and I am angry at him for what he did to Kelda, whom I was rather starting to like. That wasn't just wrong, it was cruel.

That's actually something that itches a little about that: has Doom ever been quite this petty and downright sadistic before? Now that I start to think about it, this almost seems a little beneath him.

[lamashtar]

It is. It's not just boring sadism, it's silly. The only point is to distract before he brings out his Destroyer and crushes them.

I'm a bit surprised Loki would give that to Doom, though. I thought he had more respect for Godweapons.

[jlroberson]

Loki? Respect?

Not in his nature. I think Loki is best thought of as a rational Joker. He just does these things because he enjoys chaos. He's a god of mischief. This is all just fun to him.

[freezer]

I think Loki is best thought of as a rational Joker.

Or a Joker with a working sense of self-preservation.

[jlroberson]

Either works, yeah.

[halialkers]

And against gods who were the gods of an elite of a culture where slaying kin was the worst of all possible crimes? He's his usual Magnificent Bastard self here. And you ask about a villain whose whole motivation for villainy being Hollywood Homeliness inflicted in an accident in College if he's ever been this petty before? Doom's whole sin is his pettiness.

[jlroberson]

Well, true, and I have always agreed with Sue's assessment of him in FF 1234--which basically came down to his wasting his intellect on being a creepy stalker.

[halialkers]

Right. And frankly, it's high-time Doom got down to the scumminess again. He's certainly better at it than Norman "Durr Hurr I slept with your girlfriend Spider-Man" Osborn is.

[salamangkiero]

I think Doom's motive for being this cruel is precisely to make the Asgardians go in further to where he can fight them. In that sense, it's a perfectly logical thing to do. On the other hand, there is no elegance to the strategy, which I think is more of how Doom would do things.

[jlroberson]

Well, it's an obvious show of contempt, designed to enrage them.

Here's the thing though. These are Viking gods. Rage is how they fight. They use big huge hammering hacky things, not weapons of precision and strategy. They don't really work that way. They work on "fighting spirit." So what he's doing is giving them motivation to attack him and not stop.

It worked on Kelda because she was alone.

[sinisterlink]

I am so in love with the first page of the preview and how Thor hammers Doom through a wall while Doom is in the middle of one of his speeches. lol.

I gotta say though, I can't see how the Asgardians could NOT kill Doom for what he's done here. This is up there with the "Unthinkable" storyline for worst things Doom has done.

[freezer]

As I've said before; I just wonder at those who thought Unforgivable was, well, unforgivable, but this is "just" Doom being Doom. Doom has always been about gaining power at any cost (to anyone else) and The Ends Justify The Means.

The only off note I found about Unforgivable was the idea of Doom giving up SCIENCE!™, and even that was apparently Doom straight up lying to get what he wanted.

[jlbarnett]

I disagree with the any cost thing. THere's to man options available to him that would allow him to take over to just say any cost and leave it at that.

He's generally pretty protective of Latveria so bringing the entire population of Asgard down on his country's heads is actually one strike against this plan.

[freezer]

Note, I said "To anyone else". If Doom has to give up something of himself, he'll refuse, try to weasel out, or check to see if what he loses is replaceable.

Anyone else he has to throw under the bus to get what he wants, they get thrown.

[arilou_skiff]

I too disagree with the "at any cost" thing. It's a bit hard to describe the difference, but Doom would not give up his personal honour (twisted as it is) he'd *gladly* sacrifice others, but not his (own sense of) dignity.

[lonewolf23k]

I think it's ridiculous just how much of a "Draco in Leather Pants" Doom has become over the years. Yes, he's an emotionally complex Evil Overlord with a strong (if twisted) code of honor and a tendency to Crowning Moments of Badassery, but he's STILL THE BAD GUY.

And honestly, what is it about this event that seems so "beneath" him? Using cyborged Asgardians to fight the other Asgardians sounds like a clever strategy. Considering Balder's narration, the Asgardian warriors are obviously disturbed at the idea of fighting their former friends and loved ones, and anyone who's read Sun Tzu will tell you that psychologically attacking your enemies is one of the best strategies.

[valtyr]

Using cyborged Asgardians to fight the other Asgardians sounds like a clever strategy.

Fighting your own kin and family is a huge deal for the Asgardians - the reason Loki gets away with stuff is because he's family. So this must be a particular horror for them.

[halialkers]

Indeed. The ancient Germanic cultures which worshiped the Aesir had the concept of the Wergild. If one fought kin there was nobody to pay the price for, and hence it was pretty much equivalent to pedophilia in the USA.

[twigcollins]

Wow. How thoroughly and completely a bummer.

I'm real glad they rebooted this all now.

Oh well, there's another three bucks saved per month.