Since everyone's posting about Steph's, uh, "Dark Time"

[nevermore999]

Here's a good moment between Steph and Selina during War Games. One of the only good moments War Games had, in my opinion.


I was bequeathed these through the Steph wiki. The excellent LEvraMrX, a very enthusiastic French Spoiler fan, is my one constant contributor there, and he provides me with much scannage.




Selina gives Steph props, which is nice. But of course, Steph is no match for our feline fatale.





Yeah, Steph acts weepy and failure-y and pathetic, because that's what War Games was about for her- being a pathetic, weepy failure. BUT! Look how Selina puts her arm around Steph, so sweet...directly on Steph's wounded shoulder, okay, that must hurt.






<3 Selina SO DAMN MUCH. Look at that hair ruffle,so adorable. Though since Stephanie operated as Spoiler long before Batman even gave a crap, I don't understand the "Batman didn't let me come here!!!" line. Why, because it was poor and dangerous? Not like Steph grew up in a poor or dangerous family! Besides, she probably went everywhere in Gotham before she was trained by Batman. Also kind of funny, considering Steph now operates in Devil's Square a lot now, which is probably the current Gotham equivalent of "Alleytown".





AGH this is painful moving on....




As far as I know, Selina is the only one to call out Bruce for making Steph Robin and then jerking her around and telling her nothing, even if she only does it mentally.That's part of why I adore Selina, she's usually the one who calls Bruce on his shit.

And this is why it's pretty much wrong on many levels for Steph to leave Catwoman chained up anywhere. I mean, since all of War Games is apparently still in continuity and all.


char:catwoman/selina kyle, char:spoiler/robin/batgirl/steph brown

Comments

[pyrotwilight]

"I mean, since all of War Games is apparently still in continuity and all."

The only part that seems to be ignored nowadays is that people publically found out Steph was Spoiler (in War Crimes?). You'd think it'd raise many eyebrows after she came back but...it hasn't, at all. Which has confused me beyond belief.

[nevermore999]

Yeah, that was "War Crimes" not "War Games" and yeah, that seems to be pretty much out of continuity. Which is good, because it was unholy stupid.

[schmevil]

This was a really cool scene. Thanks for posting it.

I now want Steph and Selina to be friends.

[x5455]

I now want Steph and Selina to be friends.

THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[espanolbot]

Shame about Steph leaving Selina trapped in half a cargo container with her top unzipped.

[mystery]

I know.

[akodo_rokku]

No Prize: She left Selina there and pretended not to know her because she knew Kara would haul her off to jail otherwise, and Selina could get out of there on her own once they left.

[nevermore999]

Honestly, it is my canon that they ARE friends, And you're welcome!

[thebigapricot]

I wonder if they'll ever have a scene between the two of them where they talk about choosing to put their daughters up for adoption?

[requiem2adream]

Of course they will! When Selina is married to Bruce, and Steph is married to Tim and their daughters (who were naturally adopted by the same family lol Bruce, you so crazy for arranging that) come back to find them and be initiated into the Bat/Cat family!

Um. Yeah. HELLO PERSONAL MARY SUE FANON XD

[innerbrat]

And they can form a team with Sin and Lian. And EVERYTHING IS SPARKLY.

[requiem2adream]

:D! Exactly!

[rhythmbandit]

Nice to see Selina taking her side over what happened. War Games didn't really do anything for me and I keep trying to forget it happened. At least comics are... flexible in nature, and now she's back.

[jaybee3]

Yeah, this makes the way Steph (and Kara) treated Selina in the recent World's Finest mini not cool or funny at all.

And like you I've always like the one thing about Selina is that - let's face it- pretty much everyone including his Rogues, his JLA comrades, and especially his "kids", hold him and his uber-greatness in awe (even Selina says there can't be a flaw in Batman's plan) so are shocked, SHOCKED, whenever he screws up. Selina is rarely so even more than Alfred (who let's face it has enabled Bruce all his life). Of his "allies", it would be more common for Selina to call out Bruce on his crap than Clark or anyone else.

And of course is that when Bruce comes back I can see the rest of the Bat-clan easily going back into lock-stop for DaddyBats, even if he doesn't take back the cowl - even Stephanie (who by now knows all about Matches Malone I assume).

[espanolbot]

Yeah, it kinda seemed to be Steph going "I have cooler friends now!" or something.

Though that World's Finest comic had Selina making Cat puns and she hasn't done that in agggeeesssss. So It's probably more out of character writing than Steph being an out of character bitch. :(

Or she absorbed some of Kara's early series horribliness somehow. Whichever.

[nevermore999]

Selina was acting like a villian in the World's Finest Comic- acting like she was going to kidnap Kryptonite man for the Penguin and then bitching and whining at Steph that it was all her fault that they got captured (even though it clearly wasn't)-and there was was no indication the two had ever been friends. So really, Selina's the one being humongously OOC and Steph's just treating her like a villain she doesn't know who is better off being chained up so the police can retrieve her.

[nevermore999]

So I'm just going to pretend that was Pod-Selina and Steph knew that and that's why all those shenanigans happened.

[mystery]

Sadly, it made Kara and Steph look much less than heroic. Goofy and silly and childish. It's a shame the writer chose to write them that way.

[nevermore999]

Yeah, it is. I honestly expected better from Gates.

[jaybee3]

Me too. Especially since he's done so much to make Kara more responsible, heroic and NICE during his Supergirl run.

[chipsnopotatoes]

I didnt read the World's Finest issue but this is the Steph/Selina interaction I know about. Maybe the writer of World's Finest did not do proper research.

Is World's Finest even in continuity or just one of those random books out there?

[espanolbot]

It's tied into the upcoming Earth/New Krypton war (I think) so it's probably in continuity.

[silverzeo]

Wow, alot issues were about Spoiler, before and after her "death" ... but what about that other guy.... Orpheus?

[nevermore999]

Silly, black people aren't important!

OTOH, as far as I know, Orpheus and Batman were never really that close? Or something. Meanwhile, Steph was Robin, and the whole War Games arc was centered around her editorially engineered failureness, so it made sense a lot of issues would be about her.

[jaybee3]

Orpheus was a much wasted character (especially since IIRC he was being built up to be a regular member of Bruce's Gotham operation). I think they really could have used someone like him in this post-BftC era without Bruce.

Orpheus?

[octopusgirl.livejournal.com]

[irrelevant]

The unevenness of comics characterization is enough to drive a reader nuts. This interaction seemed to fit both Steph and Selina better than the recent World's Finest effort.

[sistermagpie]

Along with the many other frustrating things about this story are the women having these imo really odd judgments about Bruce that are just to the left of imo more valid criticism. Like when Leslie yells about how Bruce is just as bad as criminals (wtf?) and here Selina's like, "OMG, Bruce, wut? You didn't tell her you were Matches? Her plan didn't have a chance!" Because it would totally have had a chance otherwise. Then she goes for him not having a Robin who doesn't know who Matches is, but Steph wasn't Robin for wrong before "things didn't work out the way Bruce wanted--who knows with Batman" (nice use of passive/vague there but wow, no lessons learned there) and there's probably hundreds of things she hadn't learned yet. It hadn't come up during probation.

I appreciate that the writer's obviously trying to make this a story about Batman's flaws causing a dangerous situation too because they don't want to see Steph just being a complete Sorcerer's Apprentice character, but it's weird for that to be Selina's thoughts on this.

[nevermore999]

Catwoman's point is that he made Steph Robin w/o giving her any trust or information. How the hell is she supposed to be a good Robin if her mentor didn't trust her?

And Steph is admitting she doesn't really understand Batman or what he was thinking through the whole thing.

And yes, the plan never had a chance. That's Selina's point. If Steph had know Matches Malone was Batman, she never would have put the plan into action.

I agree with the other problems but War Games whaddyagonnado.

[sistermagpie]

Steph not knowing who Matches was doesn't mean she didn't get any trust or information in short time as Robin. She wasn't a good Robin in a situation where Bruce did put trust in her. She's just told her that she's put into action things Bruce didn't want put into action behind his back

And yes, the plan never had a chance. That's Selina's point. If Steph had know Matches Malone was Batman, she never would have put the plan into action.

Yes. But that's basically saying that he ought to have given her this information to save her from this particular bad idea that she shouldn't have been acting on anyway, rather than a sabotage situation.

[mystery]

I agree with your take. That's the way I read this arc.

[jaybee3]

I always figured Bruce didn't share anything with Stephanie because (like DC Editorial) he never really saw her as Robin and knew she was just there till Tim came back. Which is some Bat-dickery on his part in letting Steph think otherwise but that's how I see it from Bruce's POV.

[bj_l]

""OMG, Bruce, wut? You didn't tell her you were Matches? Her plan didn't have a chance!" Because it would totally have had a chance otherwise."

It actually would have, because had she known this little detail the scenario probably wouldn't have been put into effect.

[sistermagpie]

In that case the plan wouldn't have happened, which would have been better, yes. (Or she'd pick another plan that might have consequences that were better/worse--but would most likely involve Batman just as much.)

[promethea4]

Yes, I think she'd have just picked another plan that would have seemed more likely to succeed, with just as much chance for disaster. But then, I never really bought Selena's reasoning there. So maybe don't listen to me? Hrm.

[mystery]

Very much agreed on the frustrating way the women are written in this story! (Those two moments are particularly wtf, also it's just kind of weird to watch the way I began to realize that Steph was not going to learn anything and simply repeat her mistake again at the big moment when she tries to get to Orpheus.) I was so glad to see Onyx and Cass whenever they showed up in this series.

[schala_kid]

And then Steph leaves Selina all tied up in World's Finest #3

Hurrrdurrr continuity!

[promethea4]

I remember reading this and being a bit charmed by how Selena sort of took Stephanie under her wing and really tried to help her in the whole mess.

And that makes Steph leaving Selena tied up leave an even worse taste in my mouth than it already did.

[psychopathicus_rex]

Poor Steph. I mean, yeah, she IS acting awfully weepy and sniffly here, but honestly, how would YOU react if the Big Bad Bat had been yankin' you around, and then you tried to get back in his good books and everything went completely pear-shaped? You'd be pretty freaked out, is how.
What I find interesting is that this is a REALLY sympathetic Selina. Unexpectedly so, even. I mean, I've always seen Selina as being kinda tart and sassy in a lot of respects - not unsympathetic, but the sort of person who HAS, in the final analysis, been a professional thief for most of her life, so she tends to come off as a bit more cynical than the do-gooder types. Here, though, she's a total mother hen. This is not something that annoys me or anything, mind you - it's just not quite the response I would have expected from her.

[requiem2adream]

Wow that art is ugly as all get out isn't it. Which is a shame because that's actually a pretty decent moment between Steph and Selina. Ah well. It's not the first, nor will it be the last well written issue to be ruined by terrible art.

[halloweenjack]

Yeah, bad/inappropriate art distraction. Something about the way that that scene is drawn reads like a setup for the two of them forgetting all about War Games for about twenty minutes.

[mystery]

I've been trying to figure out part of what bugged me so much about this scene. And one of the things, and it's a big one-I'll have to check--I think it's the same writer who wrote Steph's torture porn a few issues later.

[mystery]

I think this is Catwoman 35, isn't it? Do you know the credits?

[mystery]

Nevermind. Found it.