This entire issue was EXCELLENT really, it has to be one of my favorite issues of batgirl ever (and thats including Steph's batfamily timeline "Vengance!") But i posted two pages that had me bent over... ummm yeah...
I mean seriously, I was reading Red Robin and I was like "This isn't bad!" and then I read the comment bart made about cassie and I was like -_-
Soo if it wasn't for this, the best I would have read this week would be The Walking Dead which isn't DC and had a death in it (possibly) of a character I like. So that's saying something. (and not just because I expect deaths in that...) But seriously...
I know! I was expecting to be bummed out for the rest of the night, but Batgirl was such a pleasant and awesome surprise! And also I watched Babies, which helped A LOT. xD
Hahaha also the line when Klarion is like "How did you know about that?!" right after Steph has given some snark that he was totally clueless to.
Yeah, reading the Cassie scene... idk, it seems like more and more lately I'm seeing female characters in comics and other mediums that are being written by men and are just reacting pleasantly and as though they're in the wrong when they're completely railroaded by a male character. IDK, really sets a bad precedent.
Klarion is one of my favorite never used characters so any thing he's in is <3
It's sad. I mean, maybe if it had been an isolated incident in a week that didn't completely suck, or if it had been someone else talking, like Rose, I mean Rose saying pretty much that Cassie sucked as a leader is canon, and it's totally not for Bart. (I mean it's canon under a writer who doesn't care about any character except making Tim look good at the expense of everyone else, not under a writer who actually knows the characters)
I wasn't sure what annoyed me the most about the issue; Kon and Bart dismissing Cassie's leadership of the Teen Titans or Tim directing his instructions to Kon before realising that no, Cassie's the team leader and he should know that because he was part of the team for a long time!
I get it! The writer thinks that Tim is the best character ever! But why must he tear down the other characters to make Tim look better?
is that how your read it? i mean i didnt think that scene was needed, but i don't think they were out right dismissing her...
to me it sounded like two things, people reverted to tim's leadership out of Habit, he was the leader of the Titans for a good while. plus they miss him. so they are being over eager. was it RUDE to wonder girl? on one hand, yes, on the other hand no.
let me see if i can state this right....
if they were saying "sorry cass" and meant it in that "Sorry but we are following Tim's lead on this" yeah that is plain rude.
if they meant it "Sorry Cass, we didn't mean to make it seem like we are choosing him" then it was more the excitement of the moment. while that might be soem what rude, it is not as rude as the first.
the third option is that they all started following Tim's lead because it IS Tim's case and he more than likely knows more than they do and already has plan. in which case the state its more "Sorry Cass we should have defered to you"
now the fact that this panel is left very ambiguous i think is what causes most of the problems..
i hope i illustrated my points well enough... i am not saying it was okay, it was sloppy work in an otherwise GREAT issue
I get your point. You're arguing the difference between a conscious decision to snub her and insult her or whether it was an impulsive act. The difference to me though, is that one is out and out cruelty and one is just thoughtless rudeness.
My own take was that it was thoughtless rudeness rather than conscious cruelty. I think that Cassie handled it with immense grace, given that she did Tim the favour of bringing her team to assist him and instead of treating her as a partner, she got dismissed. It was meant to make Tim look like a natural leader; instead it made him look thoughtless and rude.
"I get it! The writer thinks that Tim is the best character ever! But why must he tear down the other characters to make Tim look better?"
That's been my main issue with Red Robin since Nicieza took over. Everyone is made dumber and less effective in comparison to Tim. I know he's the title character, and we should expect him to be the focus, but not to the extent that other characters look irrelevant.
When he first mentioned it he said that something to the effect that "I see through his eyes." I just assumed he just didn't want to see this best friend getting it on.
yeah but later he mentioned not wanting to loose his friend. its actually very human. thinking once he finds a "partner" he will no longer want/need him
I may be working with old information, but the Teekl I remember has previously shown herself to be female by shifting into a well shaped half human form, ala the Cheetah.
it would still be funny if they were both girls.... still makes me think, if Teekl is a guy... why did Klarion think that the other cat a was a man? :D
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Date: 2011-02-10 05:02 am (UTC)Also pretty pretty art.
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Date: 2011-02-10 05:12 am (UTC)Steph solves everything with a punch to the face, lol
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Date: 2011-02-10 05:15 am (UTC)Keep rocking, Miller. This was quite a palate-cleanser after Superman #708.
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Date: 2011-02-10 05:59 am (UTC)Soo if it wasn't for this, the best I would have read this week would be The Walking Dead which isn't DC and had a death in it (possibly) of a character I like. So that's saying something. (and not just because I expect deaths in that...) But seriously...
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Date: 2011-02-10 06:16 am (UTC)Hahaha also the line when Klarion is like "How did you know about that?!" right after Steph has given some snark that he was totally clueless to.
Yeah, reading the Cassie scene... idk, it seems like more and more lately I'm seeing female characters in comics and other mediums that are being written by men and are just reacting pleasantly and as though they're in the wrong when they're completely railroaded by a male character. IDK, really sets a bad precedent.
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Date: 2011-02-10 02:27 pm (UTC)It's sad. I mean, maybe if it had been an isolated incident in a week that didn't completely suck, or if it had been someone else talking, like Rose, I mean Rose saying pretty much that Cassie sucked as a leader is canon, and it's totally not for Bart. (I mean it's canon under a writer who doesn't care about any character except making Tim look good at the expense of everyone else, not under a writer who actually knows the characters)
I just hope it doesn't continue... :/
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Date: 2011-02-10 03:50 pm (UTC)I get it! The writer thinks that Tim is the best character ever! But why must he tear down the other characters to make Tim look better?
At least Batgirl soothed my nerdrage.
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Date: 2011-02-10 04:20 pm (UTC)Same reason writers of the '40s Sherlock Holmes films tried to make Holmes look super-smart by writing Watson as a moron.
Too limited in talent to know any better.
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Date: 2011-02-11 07:27 pm (UTC)to me it sounded like two things, people reverted to tim's leadership out of Habit, he was the leader of the Titans for a good while. plus they miss him. so they are being over eager. was it RUDE to wonder girl? on one hand, yes, on the other hand no.
let me see if i can state this right....
if they were saying "sorry cass" and meant it in that "Sorry but we are following Tim's lead on this" yeah that is plain rude.
if they meant it "Sorry Cass, we didn't mean to make it seem like we are choosing him" then it was more the excitement of the moment. while that might be soem what rude, it is not as rude as the first.
the third option is that they all started following Tim's lead because it IS Tim's case and he more than likely knows more than they do and already has plan. in which case the state its more "Sorry Cass we should have defered to you"
now the fact that this panel is left very ambiguous i think is what causes most of the problems..
i hope i illustrated my points well enough... i am not saying it was okay, it was sloppy work in an otherwise GREAT issue
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Date: 2011-02-13 12:02 pm (UTC)My own take was that it was thoughtless rudeness rather than conscious cruelty. I think that Cassie handled it with immense grace, given that she did Tim the favour of bringing her team to assist him and instead of treating her as a partner, she got dismissed. It was meant to make Tim look like a natural leader; instead it made him look thoughtless and rude.
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Date: 2011-02-13 11:18 am (UTC)That's been my main issue with Red Robin since Nicieza took over. Everyone is made dumber and less effective in comparison to Tim. I know he's the title character, and we should expect him to be the focus, but not to the extent that other characters look irrelevant.
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Date: 2011-02-11 07:38 pm (UTC)funny how Klarion thinks that both cats are boys :D
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Date: 2011-02-10 07:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-02-10 10:04 am (UTC)Oh goodness god in heaven.
Why do the cats have to get it on?
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Date: 2011-02-10 01:48 pm (UTC)Not the wisest choice ever, that.
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Date: 2011-02-11 08:07 pm (UTC)could be both :D
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Date: 2011-02-11 10:12 pm (UTC)still makes me think, if Teekl is a guy... why did Klarion think that the other cat a was a man? :D
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Date: 2011-02-10 02:34 pm (UTC)We have a winner! :D
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Date: 2011-02-11 08:48 pm (UTC)Also, this is pretty great.