Some more info on the new Teen Titans

[superboyprime]

Lately, there's been a spate of Scott Lobdell interviews at the usual websites, about the post-September Teen Titans. He's still playing it really close to the vest for the most part, but a few more details emerge here, here, and here.

On how much of a reboot this will be:

I have to say I don’t really see things as being that dramatically different as much as I am seeing things being dramatically the same.

Tim Drake is still Red Robin, Cassie Sandsmark is still Wonder Girl, and everyone is still pretty much exactly who they are, just with a little custom fitting.

My first draft of Teen Titans read as if it were Teen Titans #101 — maybe a brief few months after [J.T. Krul]’s run which was ending with issue 100. People were very excited and supportive of it, but soon it was decided I didn’t go far enough: they wanted this book to feel like an issue one, not a continuation of a series cancelled by low sales. They wanted readers who were picking up Teen Titans #1 to feel like they were picking up the first issue of a new series... and so that is what Brett and I delivered.

--

I don't really see it as we're trying to draw new readers in as much as I'm trying to write "Teen Titans" #1 in a way that someone doesn't pick it up and feel like all the best stories about these characters were told 10 years ago. I think a first issue should, where possible, say "Hey! Hop on board! This is going to be awesome!" I'd rather say that than, "Oh, hi! Sorry, you missed everything!"

Is this an unconventional way to look at things? Maybe! But I'm hoping new fans will feel included at the same time older fans can feel energized. The goal is to please everyone who is picking up the first issue of "Teen Titans" -- and that includes anyone who stopped reading the series after Marv [Wolfman] and George [Pérez] left!

--

Right now, it feels to me that if you read TEEN TITANS #1 and SUPERBOY #1, they serve two masters at the same time: if you are reading the characters for the very first time you should feel like you haven’t missed a thing… and if you’ve been reading the characters for the past 15 or 20 years you’ll be surprised to discover most of what you know about the character is there… just tweaked.

(Sort of like the way you read a favorite book and then it becomes a movie. An actor is going to bring his or her talents to the role, and it is going to be different from what you’ve had in your head. Same character for the most part, just different choices, perhaps, in interpretation.)

Tim Drake is a perfect example. Yes, he figured out Bruce’s secret identity and yes he became Robin and yes things happened in his past that prompted him to move on from that role and become Red Robin. How long ago was that? What brought him from there to issue one of Teen Titans? I’d like to leave it vague enough that long time fans can take comfort in knowing a lot of the stories they loved still happened…and a lot of new readers (or fans who haven’t read the book in five or ten or twenty years) can sit down with issue one and feel they haven’t missed out on several decades of continuity with these characters and this world.

Similarly, Superboy comes to Teen Titans and his own series with a lot of his D.C.history in place. He still showed up shortly after the Death of Superman, he is still the clone of Superman and Lex Luthor. How we reconcile his past with the opening issues of Teen Titans and Superboy? That, I’m afraid, has to remain vague for now (it is bad enough if someone in the audience shouts out the ending of the movie — imagine how much more depressing it would be if the writer shouted out the end of the movie four months before the movie was released!).

On whether Wonder Girl's a new character or Cassie Sandsmark gone bad:

I'd have to say neither. I don't think she's really much different from the Cassie Sandsmark who originally "borrowed" the Sandals of Hermes and the Gauntlet of Atlas for her first adventure. I think some people read the word "thief" and think she's being re-imagined as a female Gambit -- that is not the case at all.

On the new team members and their "diversity":

That said, I can tell you I'm excited about seeing the Core Four interact with some new characters. Could we have used any one of the awesome number of teenaged super heroes in the DC Universe as the other members? Certainly -- Miss Martian, Red Devil, Lilith, Bumblebee are just a few that spring to mind! But Marv and George used the series to introduce such former rookies as Cyborg, Raven and Starfire and brought in "that green kid from 'Doom Patrol,'" and so we felt it was important to keep the tradition alive by using "Teen Titans" #1 to introduce new characters to DC through the Teen Titans.

Someone on the message boards was bemoaning the very idea of trying to introduce a single new character in "these days of decompressed comics," which might be true. But Brett and I aren't doing decompressed comics -- we're actually having trouble fitting everything we want to into this new 20-page format! Does that make me old school, that I'd rather a comic be nearly overflowing with story and action and character development each month instead of stretching a single story over the course of six issues? Then call me Old School and I'll wear the name with pride!

--

I’ll say this: if the comic industry never created another young white male super hero, we’d be okay. Not that I have anything against them, but I don’t think the over abundance of them reflect the world we live in.

--

Over the years I’ve shared in the creation of a handful of super heroes that have been “diverse”… Skin, Mondo, Cecilia Reyes, Synch, the unfortunately named Maggot, Noir over in Wildcats, Puck’s daughter, Centennial and M to name a few. Do I do it on purpose? Honestly, yes… because I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to pick up a comic book and not see “yourself” reflected on the pages.

At Marvel I used to argue you can’t have a team sub-titled “Earth’s Mightiest Heroes” and then have no people of color represented. “Really? Seven billion people on the planet and you can’t find one of them that isn’t white to put on a team of Earth’s Mightiest Heroes? On Earth. On all of earth?” One editor even told me “Vision is red!” Seriously.

On the Robin wings:

Brett said on another site that “the battles between me and Scott were epic!” And they were. We would go round and round about Red Robin, for example. Brett didn’t want to change him at all — and I wanted huge steam-punk wings that would allow him to get from place to place without being cradled in Wondergirl’s arms or riding Superboy piggyback. (I’m sorry, but Starfire cradling Robin in her arms while he’s shouting out orders to the team is one of those images you just never forget.)

I felt really strongly that Red Robin has to be different from Robin who has to be different from Nightwing and Red Hood and Batgirl and Huntress and everyone who puts on a mask and becomes part of the “Bat Family”. Tim has to be more than just another teen detective in an ever revolving domino mask — and part of the way to do that is for him to adapt to his environment. When he’s leaping from roof to roof with Batman, he can function like a Batman. But when he’s running around with guys that can topple buildings or speed around the city in ten seconds, he needs to adapt in ways that don’t make him a liable to the rest of the team.

Brett would write to me and say “Robin is named after Robin Hood, not the bird. No wings.” I would write back and say “Let’s just TRY the wings, see how they look.” He would write back “I sketched out some wings. They don’t work.” I’d say “Can I SEE the wings and we can DISCUSS the different looks?” and he’d write back and say “Fans don’t want to see Red Robin with wings. I know, I am a fan. They won’t accept him with wings.” LOL! This went ’round and ’round and ’round until he relented and showed me the wings and then we all got really excited because Red Robin looks so great with those wings! They say “Yeah, I’m a teen detective — but I’m smart enough to know what I need to kick your ass!” (Storywise, how he came by those wings in continuity and the other additions to his “utility belt”, is so exciting I want to blurt them out right here! And when you look at the character’s history, he grew up around a guy who had bat-mobile, a bat-copter, a bat-boat, a batcave, and the most expensive toys in the world. This notion that Red Robin wouldn’t similarly use today’s technology to help him in his own fight against crime flies in the face of everything we know about the character.)

Brett saw himself as a vanguard for what is traditionally the Teen Titans. But it was always a matter of philosophy. He felt we shouldn’t change the look that much…that Robin and Wondergirl and Kid Flash and etc were iconic. I had a totally different view:

Of all the teams in the D.C. Universe, none of them have been more about change than the Teen Titans. Dick Grayson is maybe the first character I can think of who “graduated” from being a sidekick into being his own superhero, lets start there. Donna Troy started out as a mod girl in essentially Wonder Woman underoos, into that red jumper, into losing the name Wondergirl completely, into being one of the most respected super heroines in DCU. Wally eventually became Flash. Speedy and Garth waded off to parts unknown (and even they came back as Red Arrow/Arsenal and Tempest at some point) with the second relaunch of Teen Titans, their seats replaced by a cyborg, an orange pin-up model in a purple armored bikini and a woman in big black cape (and you know, those three went on to become the superstars we know and love twenty years later).

Eventually entirely new people took over the roles of the Titans: Tim Drake became Robin, Cassie Sandsmark went from geeky tagalong to Wonder Woman to the hot kick ass in the T-shirt and fashion plate she is today, Bart, formerly Impulse, became Kid Flash, and Superboy joined the team — and even the notion of a Superboy went from the original younger Clark, to a clone in a leather jacket and maybe the worst hair cut in the industry, into the drop dead sexy T-shirt wearing beefcake we’ve come to know and love. And that’s not even counting the two dozen other characters who have come and gone over the years in all the incarnations of the Teen Titans.

To me, the most iconic part of the Titans, is that they change.

On Teen Titans being a teen book:

Honestly, how many sixteen year-olds know what they want to do with their lives? How many change their minds along the way?

I think Tim Drake is a fascinating character because unlike Dick or Jason or Damien, he’s never seen himself on a career trajectory to someday grow up to be Batman. So if he’s Red Robin until he’s twenty and decides to go to college and become a heart surgeon, would that be so crazy? The world can always use a good heart surgeon as much as they need another super hero.

Relax, Tim’s not going to quit the Titans to be a doctor! I’m just saying, these kids are young and they should be free to make any future choices based on their experiences — this notion that every young person who calls themselves a Teen Titan is destined to grow into a full-fledged super hero with membership in the Justice League or Outsiders some day? That idea should be put to bed right now, otherwise we’re just watching kids going through the motions on the road to Destiny instead of living their lives in the now.

--

But I will say this: Sometimes I’ll look at previous choices (and this isn’t a slam against any one writer or editor because this particular example has been around for decades and has become part and parcel of the Teen Titans) and it leaves me scratching my head.

The Statue Graveyard In The Teen Titans Basement? I look at that and I think, “What 17 year old on planet earth has statues of their dead friends in their basement, or their garden or their front lawn?” I’ve had my share of friends who died in my youth, and it would never occur to me in a million years to have statues of my dead friends commissioned so I could keep them in my basement and visit with them whenever I was feeling depressed.

--

But so when I was pitching out my ideas for the Titans re-what, I explained one of the first things I wanted to do – while treating the Teen Titans like actual teens – was to lose the Friend Graveyard. Bob was like “I was just saying the same thing to someone last week!” (See? Simpatico!)

Now, I can see why a writer would introduce the idea in a comic – it is visual, it adds gravitas, it speaks to a history – I just don’t see it as something any teen character would ever do. (My mind reels at the thought of one of the Robins commissioning statues, let alone a series of statues from some Italian sculptor who has made a small fortune off the Teen Titan deaths over the years.)

On DC's new editor-in-chief Bob Harras:

No one who knows us would ever mistake us for friends — friendly, sure — but when Bob and I talk it is almost always about characters or plots or pitches that he shoots down.

--

When I turned in my Teen Titans plot I got rave reviews from my editor, other editors, publishers, artists! Bob said “I will be honest with you... I didn’t hate it.” Which is Bob for “This was great!”

Wouldn’t that be a great cover blurb for Teen Titans #1? “I didn’t hate it! Bob Harras, EIC!”

On his approach to the Superboy book:

I don't feel like I'll be lifting from any era -- but I can tell you my goal is to avoid story arcs altogether. I will admit something to Comic Book Resources readers: I kind of hate story arcs.

I prefer telling a series of one-shot stories whose subplots lead us from on story to the next. But if I can help it, you'll never see a "Part One of Blank" on any of the comics I work on. Will the stories be serialized? Yes, but I want to try to usher in an age of storytelling where readers are going to put down their $2.99 and walk away with an issue that has a 20-page story in it, not the first 1/6 of a story.

Chris Claremont and John Byrne once told a huge sweeping epic about the X-Men who wound up going to Japan, the center of the Earth, the Savage Land, into space, captive at a carnival (not in that particular order), and it wasn't until they burst into the door of the mansion and Wolverine was already tearing at his costume that we the readers even realized we were taken through comics' most awesome road trip! Every issue was important. Nowadays we'd probably be told, "This is Issue One of the Globe Trek Agenda!" Hopefully we can move away from that as an industry and let the monthlies be great and the trade paperbacks be great because they collected six really fun stories!

I need to be clear, I don't mean this as a slam in any way at the phenomenon that is Jeff Lemire and Pier Gallo -- they did a great job on "Superboy," as their Eisner nomination attests. But he opted to take the reins on "Animal Man" -- and I read "Animal Man" #1 while walking through the streets of Chinatown in Los Angeles, and I couldn't put it down; no matter how many times I nearly got hit by a car, it is that good -- and I'll be telling different stories with Kon-El!

For legality...



Maggott: Even his co-creator can't spell his name.

Comments

[aaron_bourque]

This is a lot to digest.

[superboyprime]

Well, it's bits and pieces from three different interviews, so that does add up to a lot, I guess.

[aaron_bourque]

Some of it sounds good, some of it not so good. Unfortunately, I was never a fan of Lobdell's writing, so even the good doesn't leave me with much confidence.

Aaron "The Mad Whitaker" Bourque; except the thing about packing too much into an issue, his whole "old school" tangent. YES. COMIC BOOKS ARE SUPPOSED TO BE JAM-PACKED WITH FUN.

[eyz]

This whole relaunch is starting to feel like another "One Year Later" only, remember Wonder Woman costume change? Well, this time EVERYBODY gets a new costume, for no-reason story-wise.

[rordulum]

He's got a point about non-flying characters looking silly when someone's carrying them. But that's a staple of superhero comics, dammit!

And he really shouldn't be bragging about creating Maggot.

Teen Titans could be good if they stuck to the same characters, didn't kill anyone, and actually allowed the kids to seem like they enjoy each others' company.

I don't really mind Tim being in Teen Titans and not having his own Bat title, because it's something that they did with Dick Grayson as well, and this way it allows Teen Titans to stand on its own, rather than have to have Tim leave the team randomly whenever the Bat stories demand it.

[flidgetjerome]

Cassie Sandsmark went from geeky tagalong to Wonder Woman to the hot kick ass in the T-shirt and fashion plate she is today

. . . Does anyone actually like Cassie since she changed into a "hot kick ass in the T-shirt and fashion plate"?

[marco]

I like her at times, but for the most part, I miss the (kinda geeky but mostly spunky) tagalong. I do like points of new Cassie when she's written well though. I kind of like both existing, but I wish someone could effectively bridge the gap.

[eyz]

Yeah, I miss the ol' Cassie too...
'needs to be more geeky smart-ass gals in comics. 'nuff said!

[jlbarnett]

well, I honestly don't see much difference except she's a bit angrier currently.

[icon_uk]

In the majority of her Young Justice days, yes. Pre-that, and post YJ, not so much.... nothing against her per se, just don't warm to her as a person for the most part.

[mrstatham]

There's varying degrees between what Cassie was when she first appeared and what she is now, though. There's a reason John Byrne's first version is infamously known as the 'horse-faced Wonder Girl' by some.

Cassie also arguably became a lot hotter when she entered Young Justice, before she became the 'hot blonde' in Teen Titans. So.. Yeah. Varying degrees.

[icon_uk]

I nearly posted some comments from the "Statue Graveyard" interview last night, so thanks for that.

He certainly sounds keen (though citing Generation X as an example doesn't fill me with joy. I know it has it's fans and I dearly wanted to like it more as I like the concept, but when they seemed unable to even agree upon what actual powers the team members had, it wasn't a good sign for me, and I just plain don't like Chris Bacchalo's artwork on it)

Still, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, this could be great, though it does sound a bit "Zero Hour" ish... most of the stuff in the past happened, but we're tweaking the bits we didn't like and have to hope it works. In the ZH case we got the best take on the Legion I think we've had (apart from the Levitz Grell and Levitz Giffen runs) so maybe Teen Titans will be the equivalent here.

[whitesycamore]

He definitely talks a good game - he came across as similarly smart and committed and enthused when he spoke about Red Hood and The Outlaws. Here's hoping his work will live up to his general appearance of being a nice guy who cares about good storytelling.

[q99]

One- I am totally fine with the timeline vagueness, for pretty much the reason he says. You really don't need to say "Past stories didn't happen" OR "All this other stuff happened!"

Two-
"I’ll say this: if the comic industry never created another young white male super hero, we’d be okay. Not that I have anything against them, but I don’t think the over abundance of them reflect the world we live in."

Word :) No problem with them, but let's get some balance.

[icon_uk]

Out of genuine curiosity, who was the last "young white male super hero" DC created? Jaime doesn't count, nor should Osiris.... Zachary Zatara perhaps? I'm probably overlooking a dozen since then, but offhand, can't think of many.

[domino_blue]

I hate to say this, continuity not the problem. Look I know people feel intimidated by it and it ruins stories, but here's the thing you don't have to reference it to move forward. Your just building a new continuity that will most mean sqaut in a couple years or when a new writer comes in and say he liked it better when you were not writing the title. Continuity is only there to move the characters forward from where they were and saying all their great stories happens 20 years ago mean your not confident you can write these characters at they are now and move them forward. Revamps worked back in the day because not everyone could catch up just in monthlies or anything else. Today we have trade paperbacks that reprint the old stories plus hundreds of comics wikis to look up stuff on. If you wanted to you could try and push the fact that these stories are available or hell put the entire dc comic library up online for people to buy and get their favorite titles.

[simiansyndicate]

Re: "The Tragic Origin of Maggott."


HE WAS BORN THAT WAY.


Goddamn, what's so hard about that?

Also, when did he become a skinny little normal (y'know, besides the slugs) black guy? I thought he looked like this: http://i.annihil.us/u/prod/marvel//universe3zx/images/thumb/5/5e/Maggott.jpg/406px-Maggott.jpg

Any help, guys?

[domino_blue]

Think of it like Shazam when he activates his powers, that thing in the picture when not, skinny kid.

[tsunamiwombat]

(My mind reels at the thought of one of the Robins commissioning statues, let alone a series of statues from some Italian sculptor who has made a small fortune off the Teen Titan deaths over the years.)

I want to see this as a mini right now. Give it the Cleanup Crew angle, maybe he's responsible for all the stupid fridgings.

[shadowpsykie]

The Statue Graveyard In The Teen Titans Basement? I look at that and I think, “What 17 year old on planet earth has statues of their dead friends in their basement, or their garden or their front lawn?” I’ve had my share of friends who died in my youth, and it would never occur to me in a million years to have statues of my dead friends commissioned so I could keep them in my basement and visit with them whenever I was feeling depressed.

heh, i could TOTALLY seee Tim doing that.. though he did have an obsessive phase for aw hile :D

[icon_uk]

I sort of see his point on that one, but as someone notes in the replies on the interview, teenagers actually very often DO build a shrine to lost friends (at the side of the road where they died, in schools etc). The Titans just A) have a budget, B) get discount for quantity orders, and C) feel that the "shrine" approach is better when mixed with an acknowledgement of the loss of a hero.

[whitesycamore]

Yeah, I have to say I think whether or not someone is a 'shrine person' or not is an individual difference thing, not anything to do with age.

Full size statues do seem a little tacky and morbid though.

[kusonaga]

Maggott: Even his co-creator can't spell his name.

I'd blame that on the article's writer.

[turtlefu]

Okay, so he kind of gets the "Diversity" sentiment in ways other than tokenism. Hopefully he'll feel the need to actually develop these characters as opposed to them just hanging around to fulfill the diversity quota.
And I like his idea of having issues with subplots that lead up to a large event together.

BUT,

even though I think Booth was right about the wings (they are tacky)

His art is horrible. Like, just really bad. He's like Joe Mad and Ed Benes mixed together in the worst way possible.

[red_menace]

Pardon me but "worst haircut in the industry?" That 'do was a thing of glorious beauty and it's loss is dearly mourned!