Scans_Daily

Brandon Stark? What happened to you beyond the Wall?

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proteus_lives

He found the Cursed Springs of Jusenkyo?

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Spring of drowned paraplegic inventor girl? I don't know, seems far-fetched.

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icon_uk

I like the fact they've included archery arm and finger guards into her outfit, and I like the overall concept.

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biod

I do to. As an archer, I know from experience those bowstrings can hurt like hell, so it's nice to see someone with proper protection.

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endis_ni

And the massive insta-purple bruise on the inner arm. Ack. It's all coming back to me.

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sparkysharps.livejournal.com

I'm trying to figure out how she controls the horse without a bridle or the use of her legs. Is it just going to be an "er, magic! That's it!" thing, or do we get a more in-depth explanation (ie. the "absolute affinity" with horses is some sort of psychic link)?

Otherwise, I do think I might end up liking her, even if some of the official statements about her make it seem like they whipped her up to placate people angry about Babs.

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espanolbot

Hm, my guess is that she shifts her weight int he direction she wants to go, and has trained her horse to go faster when she makes certain noises or something.

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shadowpsykie

plus i think the magic and affinity for horses HELPS. though since she's an inventor, I totally see her using body weight too... im pretty sure she figures something out

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Seat bones are key, which Horsewoman can do, is how many of the horses are trained at the higher levels and it makes sense. The horse responds by getting under your weight. Not having your legs would be tough, but not if the horse is trained that way.

Although he can't do all the commands up to his 4th Level Dressage moves (think the cool stuff the Lippazzaners from Vienna do), my horse does almost everything on voice commands. German voice commands.

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renie_sulaweyo

Wow, sounds like real life mind control by evil German geniuses.

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I have to say there is nothing cuter than when your 5 yr old (he's 9 now) is leading a 1400 lb Warmblood and when the horse stops to eat grass and my son growls "Nein!" and the horse just stops what he's doing and stands up square and freezes....

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The page art shows a bridle on the horse, so I'm guessing they just forgot it on the other pic.

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kamino_neko

No, it specifically says 'no bridle, so she can shoot her bow' - unless they changed that at some point between the initial design stage and when they started drawing the issue, either the bridle on the page is a mistake, not actually a bridle, but something else that happens to resemble it in silhouette, or she starts going without in the story.

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an_idol_mind

That honestly sounds like a pretty cool character. I'm in.

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shadowpsykie

oooh she looks and seems badass.... i'll bite. Plus Justine!

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shadowpsykie

notice the Monk in the second to the las panel, he's all "YAY!"

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valtyr

I think cavalry archers usually put the reins under one knee or even in their teeth... she looks cool, though.

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lucky_gamble

She sounds badass. I'm in even if it only seems like a token fill in. Especially like the fact that her breasts aren't busting out of her shirt.

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espanolbot

Having a shirt that's buttoned to the neck makes her more aerodynamic, I guess.

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greenmask

Archeryyyyy

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icon_uk

Never my favourite superskill in comics, if only because I've tried archery and it's incredibly tough and multiple arrow firing is all but impossible for practical reasons, so Ollie unleashing seven arrows to seven guns before they can fire always irks me, I'm hoping that a medieval setting might work a little better.

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greenmask

Mine either, partly for the reasons you mention and partly because I just don't really like any of the existing superarchers. I loooove Robin Hood and related character comics, but I have not found them so plentiful.

But now I am learning to do it, and I LOVE IT, and a lady with arrows in a realistic setting makes me a little giddy. Eee!

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On the sketch it says 'no bridle, it would get in the way of the bow'; I've done a lot of things off the back off a horse, why would it get in the way? Maybe they mean the reins but still.

I see why she doesn't need a bridle if she's got voice commands and a psychic connection and it looks cool, any other reason?

Becoming my new favorite character...

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greenmask

Whilst shooting they'd have to be put down, and if you were in motion at the time they'd flap about like anything.

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When aiming and firing a rifle, you have a choice. I always rode in those days no matter what in an English saddle; I looped the rein through my right arm more because there's no horn, because if you've got a horse quiet enough to fire a rifle off of, she's not likely to go anywhere.

Missy Dear was so awesome...

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FYI, I wasn't hunting... the previous owner shot pheasant off her back and I like target shooting so it was an exercise in fun!

Not a hunter, not a hunter hater, just not a hunter

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greenmask

Humph. Then I don't know! :3

ALthough, a rein looped through an arm.. as opposed to a rifle, I can imagine that it would still get in the way of a bow. It would have to be exactly the right length, I think? And even if it was, it'd get in the way of your circulation as you pulled back the string.

*guessing*

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reins are pretty long, that's why dropping the reins isn't the best option because they can get caught up on things of the horse spooks

plus no bridle is so cool...

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salinea

you can tie a knot on the bridle so it doesn't get in the way when you do other things with your hands and you can take it back after. That's what they teach you in some of the most basic dressage exercise.

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a knot in the reins, not the bridle

yes, you can tie a knot in the reins and we do that so you can drop them and snatch them back as we are teaching people to stop relying on their hands, getting of their horse's face and know almost anything can be done with their seat.

Hunter people tend to (or used to) think it was more from the hands, dressage people know it's more from the seat. I always gave a horse a dressage foundation, I was given a dressage foundation though I rode hunter/jumpers. My horse is now ridden in hunters but was a jumper and trained to 4th level dressage, although this one was not trained by me.

I guess I've left a knotted rein when ponying (leading) another horse if I've thought I'd needed a free second hand for some reason, but tying a knot in the reins isn't like typing a suture or thread, it's not a one handed procedure, maybe one hand and teeth.

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salinea

yes, English isn't my first language, sorry.

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sorry, didn't mean snippy,

for a minute I thought you were talking saddle type!

Western, English, Dressage, Racing...

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salinea

Not snippy, I just... it's always embarrassing when you try to talking about thing but you don't know words for technical terms.

Also i wasn't sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing with me.

I guess my point was : she may not need to use a bridle at all times, but there shouldn't be a reason for her to use one one while she uses a bow, and it would probably be safer to retain that option. Unless the only reason she doesn't have one is Rule of Cool. In which case, carry on :p

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I wouldn't want to not have a bridle unless the horse, like, talked or something... but it could be done.

I guess tying off the rein short enough to not get in your way is time consuming and too many hands and leaving it tied, which you do on occasion, leaves you in a bind for not having a long enough amount of rein when the horse stretched its neck to drink, jump, climb up or down and slope and then the loop and rein can flip over their heads or get caught on something.

The saddle looks like it has a horn like a Western saddle and that solves all sorts of problems of where to put your reins if you have to drop them or tie them off like the calf-ropers do.

All and all though, she's gonna be superawesome. She don't need no stinkin' bridle

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although looking at the icon, she needs sunscreen...

Edited Date: 2011-07-29 07:03 am (UTC)

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The lack of bridle and reins seems a bit ridiculous even for a magical telepath whatever person, as every ancient world horseback archery culture seems to have used reins. (They appear to mostly get looped over the saddle when using the bow.)

The hand guards are nice. I'd have been tempted to go with a thumb ring instead as many of the earlier short bow shooters (like the Mongols) used those, but these are pretty. And yay for not having boobs flooping around while shooting. I could wish her arms had more muscle and that her costume looked a little less like PVC, but those might happen.

Why, O why must we have a wheelchair? Srsly, it's all kinds of wrong. There are plenty of historical cases of cripples who could ride but not walk or stand; most of them used carrying chairs or crutches, and often stayed on a horse as much as possible. Wouldn't this character do the same?

The Airbender wheelchair is not possible as a self-propelled model at all. Setting aside the question of how you would steer that fixed front wheel, and the arms being too much in the way to push properly, and the lack of wheel rims: there's no wood in the world that could make a chair sturdy enough for that to work and yet light enough for it to be pushed by the wheels. Okay, *maybe* you could do this with bamboo frame and solid wood wheels, but it would still weigh a freaking ton. (You could make a tolerable chair out of bamboo and a modern bicycle wheel, but that tech's a long ways off from her era from the looks of things.) And collapsible? Ha.

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mister_cairo

While I agree with everything you've said, their level of technology may be higher than you've allowed for. One of the nations in the show has zeppelins, Metal ships and steam-punk tanks (granted these people can shoot fire from their hands, so they probably side-stepped most of the power issues that way) and a lot of them were built/invented by that kid's father.

Still, as you say, it looks like it's made of wood, so....yeah.

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The USA didn't have mass-produced wheelchairs of any useful kind until the Fifties, and vaguely useful not-mass-produced chairs before 1800 are generally one-offs for the wealthy or a relation. ANd IIRC plywood doesn't exist yet either. If the kid propels that unsteerable behemoth by magic, it might work.

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icon_uk

The Airbender wheelchair is not possible as a self-propelled model at all. Setting aside the question of how you would steer that fixed front wheel, and the arms being too much in the way to push properly, and the lack of wheel rims:

I think the balance is such that he could tip the chair back so could pivot on the two rear wheels if he needs a fast turn.

Otherwise it would depend on the degree of lateral friction the front wheel has, it may have a low friction level so can be moved from side to side easily, even without its own axle.

I may be missing my terminology here, but aren't those wheelrims there in the picture?

there's no wood in the world that could make a chair sturdy enough for that to work and yet light enough for it to be pushed by the wheels

Airbender isn't quite "our" world though, in terms of biology or botany, and given that it functions as the basis for a glider that Teo's father deisgned for him, it is intended to be VERY light.

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I should have said "hand rims", sorry. (That phrase invariably makes me snicker and make bad anal sex jokes, however, so I avoid it.) Rims for a wheelchair user are not the same as the rim of the wheel - what he has there looks like it's effectively a metal tyre, whereas a wheelchair user generally prefers a "rim" that juts out from the wheel to use as a handle. Trying to turn a wheel by its tyres makes your hands dirtier and runs a lot more risk of injury.

See how this guy's hands are on a second metal rim outside the wheel and somewhat smaller than the tyre (which is gray here)?

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icon_uk

Ah, gotcha, thanks!

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I've commented all over the place as a lifelong horseperson, but you can ride a horse without a bridle. You can stop a horse with voice and many are trained with a half-halt, which partially breaks momentum by the squeeze of the knees (which she can't do of course), but it would signal to the horse that the voice command is coming. You can steer by seat bones and looking where you want to go.

Actually you should be doing all that anyway, riding without relying on the need to mess with a horse's face. The use of the reins is much more subtle than people realize, or should be. For example, you don't pull back to stop from the walk, you set your hands still (because up to this point your hands have been following the horse's natural movement) and the horse will just walk into your set hand and stop.

Granted I have a ridiculously trained horse - I could put my son when he was 7 on him and we'd give him verbal cues and the horse'd just carry my son along.

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I don't know anything about horses that you want to hear (how to cook 'em), but I did a big chunk of research on the Mongol horselords, who you must admit seem to have been fairly competent at horse stuff. They, and every other major faction of mounted archer, all seem to have bridles in all near-contemporary depictions, and bridles, bits etc. have been recovered archeologically.

I suspect that high-level fancy horse training like for dressage is too "expensive" in terms of the amount of effort needed per horse when you're keeping an entire army mounted - both in terms of teaching all those horses, and teaching all those riders. But like I said, horses are not my forte.

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The Horsewoman is supposed to be one person with other attributes. Although I originally question the artist's need for not having a bridle because of the bow, having always seen a bridle on horses ridden with archers on their backs, the question within the group was the need for a bridle. My answer in the individual case is no, you don't need a bridle.

Some form of the bridle has been around since we weren't just eating them, and separately many cultures also learned that by putting something in a horse's mouth that there was better control over the animal rather than just restraining it by the neck, nose or poll (by the ears). (Carnivores/predators brains work differently and are controlled differently - another discussion for another time)

Horses have open gum areas ('the bars') behind their teeth which is a sensitive area. The bit sits there - metal, wire (shudders), leather, rope... and the horse responds. (Thus the expression "oh no, he's taken the bit in his teeth" is a bad thing).

But the bridle isn't everything and an adult horse with a balanced rider is capable of not needing a bridle, or having it there and using it.

I.e: Change direction - seat bone, eyes and head turn in the direction you want to go in, a verbal cue, perhaps a shoulder touch - would require some additional training there but would but not impossible.

Stopping's easy - whoa.

Mine came with this one command: Stop and stand still because you are doing something you shouldn't: the command is "nein!"

I pulled in my own horse as an example because he was ridiculously well trained in Germany years before I got him. I bought him from the people that who bred him for a song, not a 10th or 20th of his worth at the moment, but he was done and they were looking for an adult rider who he could grow old with now that he was retired from his career as an international show jumper. We are both becoming a bit more crippled, but have our uses, share our experiences with the next generations, he is wonderful with the kids at the barn and in spite of his size, has days even when he can go to a local show and he is safer to be around than a 25 yr old Shetland pony. He still only speaks German though.

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icon_uk

Some form of the bridle has been around since we weren't just eating them

Given this is SD, do I want to enquire what else they were doing with them.

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oops, they are so snuggly, but I meant to say 'when we were just eating them'...

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big_daddy_d

I wasn't interested in Demon Knights but upon seeing her, I might just read it after all. Also see she's sporting a little green and she's an archer..might be awesome if she's an ancestor of Green Arrow..or judging by the red hair, an ancestor of Roy Harper.

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icon_uk

Well, Roy is a descendent of Vandal Savage, who I believe is also on the team...

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big_daddy_d

.Wow really? Interesting..

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icon_uk

Yeah, apparently Vandal is no longer purely immortal as he always used to have been, but needs to harvest organs from family members to stay alive. Roy and Lian were both candidates.

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big_daddy_d

I already know he's Roy's ancestor. I just found it interesting and ironic as I was thinking Horsewoman might be an ancestor of Ollie or Roy, then to learn that Vandal Savage is a member of the Demon Knights as well...which causes me to already further suspect she's one of Roy's relatives...seriously Roy may be the one with the most family members in DC. They're all over the place.

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