90s Peege was...an Atlantean Fitness Instructor?

[aeka]

After properly reading the first issue of Mr. T, I gotta say if Eric Wallace is taking "Karen Starr" where I think he's taking her (as in away from her Earth-Two Kryptonian origin), I think I'll just wait for Grant Morrison's Multiversity series or Robinson's Earth-2 JSA book to make up for whatever new travesty is in store for this character. It's enough to say I'll even take Power Girl 2.0 to this newer version if she doesn't turn out to be the Peege I love and care about.

As it stands, she's been presented as the billionaire CEO of Starrware (that much is still intact) who makes "white girl" comments, and is apparently Mr. T's occasional fuckbuddy. So far I ain't diggin' it.

While, we're on the subject of rebooted origins, here's a look at 1990s Peege back when she thought she was Atlantean.





From Justice League Europe #38, Atlantean!Power Girl fights British villain Deconstructo.















Don't worry. She survived!

For Power Girl's costume changes throughout the 90s:



And just for the sake of having a macro:

Comments

[darkknightjrk]

I don't know--I don't think they'll go back to the Atlantean thing for her. My guess is that she crash-landed from...somewhere (maybe the old universe?), her memories of it got screwed up, and now she has these extraordinary powers and is keeping them on the down-low.

[aeka]

Eh, tbph, if they couldn't keep her memories in tact for DCnU and felt the need to reinvent the character again, they were far better off creating a brand new character all together for the role she's playing in Mr. T, and just reserve the character for Earth-2 JSA.

Truthfully, I didn't feel DC needed to go this route again especially since they gave her back her memories not too long ago (2007 I believe). So this will either be good, or it will seriously tank, only time will tell. For the time being though, I think I'll just wait on aforementioned titles to come along. :/

[jaybee3]

Based on what we've seen of "Karen Starr" in Mr. Terrific's new book there was no need for that to be her (especially since if she becomes "Power Girl" later on they'll probably give her Iron Man-ish money generated or Spider Man-ish accidentally generated powers and not have her be a Kryptonian). I also think Power Girl is one of those character who has proven she can carry her own "story"/title and does not to be a male hero's supporting player.

Not to mention that with the new of a JSA book set in Earth-2 she would be a perfect fit there as what she always was - an alternate Earth version of Supergirl.

[aeka]

This exactly. I honestly think it would have made more sense to just move her back to Earth-2 and keep her "Kryptonian-Superman's cousin" origin intact instead of retconning it in and out of continuity whenever it felt convenient. To quote Peege herself "reality never gives [her] a break; it's like [she's] some punchline to a joke that gets told every time the universe splits open."

I also agree that she held her own in her solo series that she didn't need to be reduced to the status of fuckbuddy/support character to a male hero in another title. If anything JSA could have set the premise for her own title set on Earth-2 and she could have gotten Helena Wayne back as a supporting cast member.

[mrstatham]

Personally, as I said below, I'd rather keep her on the main Earth, despite my issues with what the first Terrific issue did to both her and Terrific. I think to shunt her to Earth 2 just sticks the 'just another Supergirl' label back onto her after a period that has been spent really establishing the differences between her and Supergirl.

Besides, I know it wouldn't be exactly the same, but what would be the problem with establishing a friendship between her and Huntress on the main earth, as Johns was toying with slightly back before Infinite Crisis? I know that was intrinsically tied with the Earth 2 stuff, but there's no reason it couldn't work.

[aeka]

I think a Helena Bertinelli/Karen Starr friendship would have been fun and interesting to see. The question is, under what circumstances would the two characters haven been able to realistically bond? The reason Helena Wayne/Karen Starr worked so well together was because they were both polar opposites of each other, in addition to being successors to their father and cousin's respective legacies. Helena Wayne is more calm and collected with a more investigative approach to her crime-fighting, whereas Karen is more emotional and has more aggressive fighting style, two traits that she shares with Helena Bertinelli. Add the fact that both Helena B and Karen are snarky makes three. So having Helena W as her best friend provided a perfect foil for Karen's more brash personality.

I think one of the points Johns was trying to make with JSA Classified #3 was how drastically different Bertinelli is from Wayne and how too similar she is to Karen in the personality department. While a partnership between the two could work under the right circumstances, it would ultimately be very short-lived. It's also unlikely that Bertinelli would respond too well to the idea of being a replacement for Helena Wayne in Karen's life.

All in all, a fun idea to toy with, but also one that wouldn't be bound to last the way her friendship with Helena W did.

[zenbro]

Olivia Newton-John did a stint as Power Girl, who knew?

[his_spiffynesss]

There's one question that hasn't been answered (or even brought up) is what's the status of Elongated man and Sue?

[jaybee3]

According to Didio, Identity Crisis is still in-continuity (how that works since it is a story that DEPENDS on friendships/relationships among the super-heroes that no longer exist in the new DC timeline) so I assume they are both still dead.

[timgueugen]

So this will be like when Crisis on Infinite Earths screwed up Donna Troy's backstory, only this time it will do it for a whole bunch of characters.

[pallas_athena]

AHAHAHA... I'd never seen this before... Deconstructo!?!?!?

I dry my tears of laughter with my English BA scroll.

"I don't have to make sense-- because I'm smarter than you!"

[richardak]

I remember when this story came out; I thought it was terrific. This is precisely the kind of villain, and precisely the kind of story, that you can really only do in comic books. And it's such a great concept: it really is an incisive critique of the vapidity and absurdity of modern or post-modern art. It's a much more original concept for a villain than yet another space alien or mad scientist or evil businessman who wants to conquer/destroy the world out of some overweening megalomania. I thought this was one of the few post-Giffen/DeMatteis JLI stories that was really any good, and in keeping the with the tradition of the JLI, and really one of the few that actually paid attention to previous JLI continuity.

[icon_uk]

My problem was that precisely because of the vapidity of the Deconstructionist movement, Deconstructo was an uninteresting villain with lousy motivation and an, even by comic book standards, incredibly silly and clunky name.

Give me the Brotherbood of Dada any day! :)

[pallas_athena]

Oh, amen to the Dadaists-- but I find Deconstructo pleasingly cracktacular.
Admittedly, this is in part because he seems to be straight-up modelled on the type of annoying young academic that pissed me off in college. And he carries a tiiiiiny wand that looks like a [thingy]. Couldn't be sweeter.

The fact that the writer of this arc, Gerard Jones, now writes on pop-culture theory (including comics) is just icing on a cake that already contained enough delicious crack to be stolen by Lex Luthor.

[richardak]

I'm with you. It's precisely because he's a pretentious intellectual snob that he makes a great, and funny, villain. A genuine intellectual can be a great villain, but he has to be a serious villain.

[aaron_bourque]

Ah, getting rid of the multi-verse made everything SO MUCH SIMPLER!!!

. . .

[icon_uk]

Anyone who remembers the messy fall-out from Crisis on Infinite Earths could tell you that.

[starwolf_oakley]

Well, wasn't the real problem just what all the characters *remembered* happening in Crisis on Infinite Earths ? Everyone remembered the Anti-Monitor attacking, the sky turning red and Barry Allen "dying," but no one remembered multiple earths being involved.

[icon_uk]

Not really, that was the easy part: there had been a Crisis involving a lot of people a couple of comsic beings, Same old, same old in the DCU.

It was things like the sudden introduction of an entire generation of heroes prior to the ones who were supposed to be the trailblazers. The removal of the "trinity" from WWII stories which had still, apparently, happened. The Legion now dealing with the fact that there had been no Superboy to inspire them, so who was the Superboy who HAD inspired them, and so on...

[starwolf_oakley]

The Legion now dealing with the fact that there had been no Superboy to inspire them, so who was the Superboy who HAD inspired them, and so on...

That was the biggest problem with the post-Crisis Legion. I was never that into the Legion, but Valor was created as the "new" inspiration for the Legion. Then he died in the lead-up to Zero Hour, causing deliberate time-travel problems.

[mrstatham]

Whilst I think it is maybe a bit quick to judge what's going on with Karen in the DCnU on the back of one issue, I'll be honest in that I wasn't too impressed. The intention to make Terrific a bachelor doesn't even make her that significant to him, and it spoils what was a pretty good relationship back in the old DCU between him and Sasha.

This is without going into the mess it makes of Karen, who, under the gang that did her first twelve issues recently and the Terra mini, was one of my favourite characters. That said, isn't Amanda Conner meant to be working on something for the second wave of stuff, and didn't one of the exit interviews for her run on PG suggest that they could return to the character soon, if they liked? Now would be a perfect time to bring that creative team back, if only for another twelve issues.

Regardless, though, I'd want Power Girl to be on the main earth, rather than stuck on Earth 2, which seems, at the moment, to.be more of an afterthought. Even with Supergirl around, I thought PG had carved out a good niche for herself as a Kryptonian who didn't need to be affiliated with Superman, especially once she got her own title. Plus, is Johns really going to be dumb enough to toss out his own stories? You can bet that JSA Classified lead-in to Infinite Crisis still happened.

[icon_uk]

I believe Amanda Connor is confirmed as working on the JSA title with James Robinson.

[mrstatham]

I thought that was Nicola Scott?

[icon_uk]

Ah, my mistake, you're right... Monday morning brain-fart on my part.

[mrstatham]

No worries, I know that feeling.

[kenn_el]

I'd hardly call it 'stuck' on Earth-2 if they treat the concept well. Better to be a big fish in a smaller pond and all that. Besides, possibly the most serious make-overs in the 'new' DC have involved the Supers. It would be difficult to come up with a new-reader-friendly explanation for Alternative-Kryptonian_Power Girl.

[tsunamiwombat]

Is it verified her and Mr. T sometimes have 'relations'? I thought she was just a good friend.

[mrstatham]

Judging from the pages we had posted and the intentions for Terrific's character, I'd say it's a very safe assumption to make that she and Terrific do have 'relations' until we're proven wrong.

If I am, however, I will gladly eat ny hat. It just seems unlikely that they aren't, though.

[timgueugen]

The last panel of that issue must have inspired at least a few fetish art pics that month. Of course being before the era of Deviantart et al most of that stuff is lost to posterity.

[whitesycamore]

I think her being reduced to a support character and Mr Terrific being her fuckbuddy should be addressed as two separate issues.

Because I'm honestly sick of hearing how 'degrading' it is for female characters to have any kind of sex that doesn't come with years worth of will-they-won't they or a ring on the finger. The backlash seems far more misogynistic than the actual comic, to me.

It's like that thing with Huntress all over again. "Oh no, we're not slut shaming Helena. Obviously not! We're just concerned about how this will affect her reputation."

[runespoor]

Agreed.

The misogyny is far more prevalent, but just to throw it out there since we're on the subject: I'm also sick of hearing how male characters having one-night stands or what-have-you makes them immature and unworthy of their heroic names.

Sex does not make people stupid or bad.

[kenn_el]

See:Damian Wayne.

[whitesycamore]

...Damian had a one-night stand?

[mrstatham]

I'll be honest, the only reason I'm objecting to the developments in Terrific is because it's not her book and it is such a drastic change from her status before. And it's actually a change, IMO, for the worse when it comes to Terrific, too.

If PG/Terrific as a relationship, even a casual sexual one, was done across both their books - if Karen did actually have a book still - then I wouldn't object so much. I don't really care that she's having sex, because I think the comic-book attitude to sex is preposterous, but it feels like a development more for Terrific's benefit than hers, if that makes sense.

[kenn_el]

It's at least better than her previous relationship with Hawkman.

[whitesycamore]

It does make sense, and my ranty-thing wasn't addressed to anyone specific here.

I *do* get the concerns about female sexuality being used as a tool to build up male characters, but I still feel that fan reaction tends to be too extreme even when that is the case - there's often the subtext that no, it's not just irritating because it subordinates a heroine's story to a hero's, but because at heart sex is just *obviously* a nasty bad thing that demeans female characters and reduces their status as people to be taken seriously.

I also feel it's a cultural thing, partly. I think that we Brits and many other Europeans have really different attitudes to sex than Americans tend to, as a result of coming from a much more secular and socialist background.

[aeka]

Strong words you're using there mate. I'm not sure if you're accusing me of misogyny or just pissed at the overall backlash this book has faced in general, but no where in my post am I stating how degrading it is for Karen to have casual sex. I for one do not oppose Karen being a sexual character since she herself isn't beyond having flings. She did after all have that one with Hawkman.

What I do oppose is drastically changing her character so that she can be used as a tool to further advance Mr. T's development or story. If she's not the 3-dimensional snarky Kryptonian I love, who doesn't let anyone talk down to her, then I won't be much interested in investing in this version of the character. I know I'm only judging by the one issue alone, but the premise Wallace has established for her so far isn't looking very promising. Maybe my opinion will change six issues down, but I ain't holding my breath.

[whitesycamore]

"What I do oppose is drastically changing her character so that she can be used as a tool to further advance Mr. T's development or story. If she's not the 3-dimensional snarky Kryptonian I love, who doesn't let anyone talk down to her, then I won't be much interested in investing in this version of the character. I know I'm only judging by the one issue alone, but the premise Wallace has established for her so far isn't looking very promising. Maybe my opinion will change six issues down, but I ain't holding my breath."

So what does any of that have to do with whether or not she fucks Mr Terrific? As I said, I think the issues of her being relegated to a secondary character and having a personality overhaul should be held clearly separate from whether or not she likes to take the occasional ride on Mr T's disco stick.

However this: "As it stands, she's been presented as the billionaire CEO of Starrware (that much is still intact) who makes "white girl" comments, and is apparently Mr. T's occasional fuckbuddy. So far I ain't diggin' it."

Seems to conflate those issues.

[aeka]

Her shagging with Mr. T was just me pointing out (among other things I might add) what has been presented of the character in the book thus far.

To tie that with what I stated earlier, the current premise doesn't make it look like we're reading about the same character that was established in Power Girl's book. Instead this "Karen Starr" feels like a brand new character all together who is completely unrelated to the Kara Zor-L character. The fact that Michael outright states he cannot let her get too close seems to strongly imply that they're unaware of each other's identities when they were both well aware of this before.

If anything this Karen Starr feels like she underwent a complete overhaul much in the same way Helena Wayne did when she got reinvented as Helena Bertinelli for the main DCU continuity. She's essentially the same character as the previous incarnation, but completely different.

[whitesycamore]

"Her shagging with Mr. T was just me pointing out (among other things I might add) what has been presented of the character in the book thus far.

To tie that with what I stated earlier, the current premise doesn't make it look like we're reading about the same character that was established in Power Girl's book. Instead this "Karen Starr" feels like a brand new character all together who is completely unrelated to the Kara Zor-L character. The fact that Michael outright states he cannot let her get too close seems to strongly imply that they're unaware of each other's identities when they were both well aware of this before. "

Haha, ok then!

"If anything this Karen Starr feels like she underwent a complete overhaul much in the same way Helena Wayne did when she got reinvented as Helena Bertinelli for the main DCU continuity. She's essentially the same character as the previous incarnation, but completely different. "

I prefer Helena Bertinelli to Helena Wayne though - maybe we can have a fight about that instead?

[aeka]

I prefer Helena Bertinelli to Helena Wayne though - maybe we can have a fight about that instead?

Lost battle, mate; I like them both, though admittedly I place Helena W at #1 on my list. But, if it makes you happy, you *can* go first on sharing your thoughts on why you like Helena B more. I'm sure it'd be an interesting read. ;)

[arbre_rieur]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I never cared for the "refugee from an alternate reality Krypton" origin. If Earth-2 is still around and she's living there, sure, that's one thing. But the whole thing with beng a survivor of a continuity that's been retconned out of existence is way too "inside baseball" for my tastes.

[wizardru]

Quite honestly, if they reboot her continuity entirely, that'd be OK with me. Having one of the few really powerful DCU characters be so closely tied to Superman makes her a bit of a one-note follow-on character. That status basically makes her 'alternate-reality Supergirl', which isn't really much of a character when described like that. And PG is a pretty good character, so I'm curious what they do with her.

[mrstatham]

To be honest, I thought her development in her recent series did a decent enough job of trying to separate her from Superman. The development of the relationship with Atlee and the like separated her quite easily from Supergirl, and especially the kind of maturity Karen has. With her recent series, and it not being tied to any of the New Krypton garbage and what not, I thought she stood nicely on her own, similar origins to Kara or not.

[jaybee3]

It also helped that for the longest time the "new" Supergirl was written as an obnoxious unlikeable brat so that those readers who wanted an old-school straight up superhero Supergirl could turn to Power Girl was WAS written that way (which was especially obvious in the team-up SG/PG had in Faux-Kandor in the One Year Later Jump where Supergirl basically sold out an entire planet of people to the bad guys for her own ends and Power Girl was POed about it).

I always like the idea that given a slight change in events (like being discovered later or having an older Superman or something) could produce such two different Supergirls.

[bluestar86]

Well... yes, DC's brain really fell out when it came to backgrounds for some of their characters, just look at Donna Troy. Keeping her Kryptonian would be the best thing they could do, I'd be more amused if they had her keep her memories from the previous DCU, I would definitely enjoy her lecturing Clark for being a jerk.

"You used to be better than this, Clark."

[starwolf_oakley]

When it turned out she was an Atlantean, she also was supposed to be Arion's granddaughter. In the run-up to INFINITE CRISIS, Arion said to Power Girl, "I'm sorry I lied, but I promised your parents I would keep you safe." As the Earth-Two Golden Age Superman and Lois Lane were considered by Kara to be her mother (sort of), was Arion talking about them?