Question for the marvel fen about Eli Bradley

[fightingarrival]

I'm fairly certain that it's never mentioned in canon whether Eli Bradley practices any particular faith, if at all. But considering his family, it's always been my head canon that he's muslim - though I'm not positive about which branch. I'm fairly split between the Nation of Islam and Sunni Islam, but there are of course other branches and off-shoots... (Is it ever elaborated on in canon what branches Faith Shabazz and Josiah X belong to? The name changes imply Nation, but I'm not sure if it's ever actually outright said. This is what I get for not having read The Crew yet.)

What's your opinion? Do you have head canon regarding other characters religious affiliations (or lack there of)? Share!

Legalese: from Dark Reign: Young Avengers because it still remains awesome always and forever.

Comments

[glprime]

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html

Eli's not mentioned there, but your theory seems sound.

I usually don't ascribe beliefs when I haven't seen evidence of them elsewhere in the character's personality/morals/etc, plus the parade of writers makes for inconsistent views on what denominations/sects characters would or should belong to. For instance, counter to some of the points raised by the above sight, I think Superman does have a light Christian background, but it's fairly progressive and populist given the way his parents would have passed their view of dogma onto him, and Batman is agnostic if he believes in God at all (for obvious reasons).

Oddly, I usually read Spider-Man as very atheistic, largely because he's such a science nerd like Reed Richards. But there's probably a fairly deep belief in a higher power, order of things and innate sense of right and wrong there.

[auggie18]

Really? I've always read Peter Parker as jewish. Maybe just because of the yiddish, but hey.

[glprime]

He's a New Yorker born and bred (and there is a passage talking about that on the site's Spidey page), but I think that it's cultural osmosis mixed with some ancestry from his late parents, and with May's Protestant background, skewing him towards that Protestant-Lite view of God makes sense. Still, I think he's fairly abstract in his beliefs, relying more on Science! to be his pillar of faith (and humanism).

[arilou_skiff]

Aunt May at least goes to church occasionally.

[icon_uk]

That site is an odd one, prone to using most peculiar arguments to prove their point. Such as stating that Cypher is a Mormon based on no evidence at all. Ultimate Doug Ramsey was apparently based on a real-life "Jepoardy" winner who happened Mormon, but how that translates into a character created in the early 1980's is more than a little obscure.

[filthysize]

There's an inherent problem with beliefs in a shared universe where the street-level characters come into contact with the cosmic ones, I think, much in the same way we sometimes bemoan skeptic characters in DC and Marvel's supernatural world. I remember reading a (in continuity) Batman comic once, forgot which, where Bruce states that he doesn't believe in an afterlife, that he knows that he will never be reunited with his parents, which I think makes sense for someone with his resolve, not to mention his suspicious nature. So it seems very in character, yet at the same time, I read that and thought, "Seriously? You hang out with Boston Brand and The Spirit and you don't believe in ghosts?"

I feel the same way about religion. I'd have to have suspension of belief (no pun intended) that these heroes never walked up and said, "Yo, Rip, have you ever traveled back in time and confirmed if the bible portrayed Jesus correctly, if he exists at all?"

[icon_uk]

Batman's aetheism is one thing (though he has pondered how sincere he can be about it in a world where Diana and Captain Marvel, both empowered by deities, exist) but his random outright rejection of the supernatural was even mocked by Nightwing who, when told by Batman that people don't come back from the dead, replies by saying "I'm going to just mention a few names to you; Boston Brand, Phantom Stranger, the Spectre..." and continues on. Of course, this is never addressed in story due to, IIRC villains interfering.

[glprime]

To which Rip would prank, "Who is this Jesus fellow? Was he someone important?"

I think Dini and crew summed it up best in Batman Beyond:
Bruce: These people believe that anything they can't explain is magic.
Terry: And naturally you don't believe in that kind of thing.
Bruce: Of course I do. I've seen it all. Demons, witchboys, immortals, zombies...

Bruce takes a very secular few of all this though. Everything can be quantified, so it's less "outside science" and more "another set of rules." But yeah, faith for Bruce is difficult. He relies so much on himself and what he's built, it's hard for him to have belief in something greater than himself.

[kusonaga]

Josiah is most definitely Nation.

[fightingarrival]

Ooh, I figured. Thanks for confirming!

I inferred that his people were Nation

[jazzypom]

That sort of stern off shoot of Islam that Malcolm X followed until he left it. Eli might not necessarily be going to mosques and doing the various contortions for prayer, he seems like a kid in a fairly secular sort of state of being, but certain things 'stick' with him in my head canon, for e.g. he doesn't eat pork (watch canon ruin this for me by having him eat swine).

I've thought that Tony Stark was some sort of Catholic - sins in haste, repents at leisure, and has guilt complexes up the whazoo (recovering former Catholic myself, here).

Re: I inferred that his people were Nation

[fightingarrival]

Exactly! As a point of characterization, I don't think he keeps up enough with his faith to pray 5 times a day or go to mosque every week, but I think the culture of the faith sticks with him. (I like to think his grandmother side-eyes him into fasting for Ramadan.)

Do you think, Tony Stark's faith varies by universe? I mean, I think all of them have the Catholic guilt down pat (I haven't read any Ultimates), but I've always sort of read 616!Tony as kind of WASPy.

Yeah, this.

[jazzypom]

Like the Muslims where I work (a whole lot of 'em) are pretty much secular, except for the various Eids, and they do fast for Ramadan but they are so secular in everything else.
(I like to think his grandmother side-eyes him into fasting for Ramadan.)

LOL, I can see grandma faith doing that, too.

Do you think, Tony Stark's faith varies by universe? I mean, I think all of them have the Catholic guilt down pat (I haven't read any Ultimates), but I've always sort of read 616!Tony as kind of WASPy.

In Ultimates Tony's mother was Hispanic (a scientist, too). I don't know man, in 616 Tony's a guy who seems to luxuriate in his guilt at times. That's very Catholic to me, whereas Episcopalian (Anglican or an off shoot of C of E) doesn't really have that sort of outlook at all (my dad's Catholic, my mum Episcopalian and their attitudes are... different. I also attended Catholic school and did mass and flirted with confirmation, so).

Re: I inferred that his people were Nation

[lilacsigil]

I think Tony's dad is WASPy, but his mother has an Italian name, and Tony is often drawn looking quite Mediterranean. I suspect early Catholicism inside a very WASPy mainstream, so probably a Protestant or non-religious school.

Re: I inferred that his people were Nation

[nyadnar17]

A large number of American black people don't eat pork simply because of cultural osmosis. The whole "dirty animal" thing. So I don't think not eating pork necessarily means anything.

I view Eli as raise in the Nation simply because of his family, but not a practitioner himself even though most of his values come from Islam. Kinda like how many Americans identify as Christians because their parents made them go to church when they were kids, but don't actively practice the faith anymore.

[eyz]

Kick his shiny metal butt, yo!

[kd_the_movie]

Not to add to the stereotype of the Nation, but that seems to be Eli's leanings him being a young Black New Yorker (possible Nation family members) who is very critical of the US Govt. and various other authority figures.

In my dream run on Young Avengers, I woulda had the YA's finding and teaming up with the still missing Josiah X, Junta, and Kasper Cole who woulda been fighting a terrorist regime in a small African country.

[kd_the_movie]

And on a side note....I really wish artists would start drawing black males with more than 3 hairdos (its always either dreads which at least are fashionable again, bald (older guy thing IMO) or the Levar Burton style haircut from Star Trek: TNG which no one wears unless they're trying to be retro-chic)....

Like with all the hip hop artists or NBA players on magazines or in the media you'd figure they'd just photo reference their hair cuts....*sighs*

[nyadnar17]

Bald, fade, locks, cornrows, what else is there? Hell part of the reason I grew locks was just because I wanted something different than a blade or a fade, and most companies frown on cornrows

LOL, I know what you mean

[jazzypom]

But a lot of the black guys at my work place tend to either go dreads, bald, or near bald so it's not far from the truth. You have the odd mixed race (biracial) guys with curly hair so they can rock a curly fro, or a low afro puff, and my work place is cool with that, but you can't really wear corn rows, you know.

I think also, a lot of white artists don't really know how to draw highly textured hair. Rebekkah Issaks is amazing, because she will draw all ethnicities with various textures and lengths of hair- but not every artist is her (spelt her name wrong, I know, but writing on a phone, can't link).

[icon_uk]

There are the obvious one's of course
Kitty Pryde - Jewish
Kurt Wagner - Catholic
Rahne Sinclair - Scottish Presbyterian (Though I doubt she's practicing, as her own views have shifted significantly from their dogma)
Roberto DaCosta - Catholic (I think that's been stated outright, but I'd be hard pushed to say when)
Sam Guthrie - Based on the fact that when Dani foresaw his death in Secret Wars II, she saw his impression of Death as a shadowy preacher, I'd be tempted to say he was Baptist.

[wizardru]

Cannonball was explicitly stated to be Baptist in New Mutants, iirc. Claremont made it a point to identify the religions of all of them, I believe...both in the comic and in that long lost form, the letters page.

Rahne, Xian and Roberto were all identified as Catholic.
Amara, at least when introduced, followed ancient Roman beliefs/
Sam was Baptist.
Rahne was Scottish Presbyterian...and I'm sure she no longer practicing, as she was nearly killed by the asshole preacher who raised her and who, from what I've heard, she eventually....umm, ATE.
Dani was stated as holding to the beliefs of the Cheyenne.

[donnblake]

I would think that if anything, that would tend to imply that he had some fairly serious issues with the Baptist church or whatever denomination he had spent time with, not that he was a practicing member.

[crabby_lioness]

I thought Eli was Nation before Children's Crusade, but his whole approach in Children's Crusade has been so hardline old school "rebellion is still rebellion no matter what the reason, sin is still sin no matter what the reason" that I'm now convinced he must have been brought up in one of the older Black Protestant churches.

Hmmm

[jazzypom]

He's brought up by his grandparents, so that might be more of his grandparents' attitude of two generations ago bleeding over into his world view than say any sort of established religion, but I hear you.

Man, I wish they had poc athiests in comics.

I do think people are judging Eli rather harshly though *jumps into flameproof suit, paints a spot on my chest, prepares for my name to be drag through anon meme comms* in the sense that Billy and co (with the exception of Tommy) are just running headlong into trouble, not really thinking about the bigger picture (Magento? Dr Doom? The Scarlet Witch?). I pretty much sighed when Eli did that whole action he did, because the few of my flisties who liked him pretty much don't right now.

Never mind.